Foreign Affairs Committee on May 9th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Welcome to meeting number 64 of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of June 23, 2022, but members are attending in person in the room. As far as I understand, we have no one online.

I'd like to make a few comments for the benefit of the members beforehand.

First of all, since no one is online and we don't have to spend any time on that, I would like to inform all members that today is Ms. McPherson's birthday.

Happy birthday, Ms. McPherson.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

On a less happy note, if I may, I would like to ask all members to wait until I recognize them by name before they speak—unless it's Heather, of course. She has all rights today. I remind you that all comments should be made through the chair.

Pursuant to the order of reference of Monday, February 13, 2023, the committee commences its consideration of Bill S-8, an act to amend the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, to make consequential amendments to other acts and to amend the immigration and refugee protection regulations.

Concerning the drafting of any amendments that may be proposed by the members, I would like to highlight and remind everyone that members should contact Alexandra Schorah, the legislative counsel, as soon as possible should they intend to introduce any amendments.

Now, it's my great honour to welcome the sponsor of this bill to our committee. It's a great honour to have the Honourable Minister Marco Mendicino here with us. We very much look forward to his opening comments.

However, I first want to thank all the officials accompanying him today. From Canada Border Services Agency, we have Ms. Kelly Acton, vice-president, strategic policy branch, and Mr. Brett Bush, executive director, immigration and asylum policy innovation branch. From the Department of Citizenship and Immigration, we have Ms. Saman Fradette, director of migration control and horizontal policy division, and Mr. David Chan, acting director, asylum policy, performance and governance division. From the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development, we have Mr. Stephen Burridge, director of sanctions, policy and operations coordination. Finally, from the Department of Public Safety and Emergency Preparedness, we have Mr. Sébastien Aubertin-Giguère, assistant deputy minister, national and cybersecurity branch.

All of that being out of the way, thank you for appearing here today, Minister. For your opening remarks, you have five minutes.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Thank you very much for that, Mr. Chair, and for the introductions of the officials joining me.

Hello, Mr. Chair and members of the committee.

Thank you for inviting me to speak about the objectives of Bill S‑8.

Bad actors will never find refuge in Canada. The amendments proposed in Bill S-8 will close the current gaps in our sanctions regime, to be perfectly clear, by harmonizing the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act and the Special Economic Measures Act.

The proposed amendments are clear and will ensure that all foreign nationals subject to any sanctions under the Special Economic Measures Act, or what we refer to as SEMA, will also be inadmissible to Canada pursuant to the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act. Bill S-8 will modernize Canada's sanctions inadmissibility framework. From a border integrity perspective, the amendments proposed by Bill S-8 are the best way to ensure that a sanctioned person would be deemed inadmissible to Canada.

Since February 24, 2022, when Russia launched its brutal war against Ukraine through its latest illegal incursion, the Government of Canada has responded with numerous packages of new sanctions targeting many Russian and Belarusian individuals and entities. As of March 1, over 1,500 individuals had been sanctioned under SEMA in relation to this conflict. This is in addition to the more than 1,000 other foreign nationals sanctioned under SEMA tied to other countries or regimes, such as Myanmar, Syria and, most recently, Iran, following the so-called morality police's brutal human rights violations—just to name a few. While some of these individuals are currently inadmissible to Canada, the majority are not.

If a sanctioned foreign national arrives at the Canadian border, Bill S‑8 will guarantee that a CBSA official can immediately deny entry and remove the person from Canada.

Passing the legislation would also mean that the roughly 2,500 individuals currently sanctioned under SEMA for grounds not linked to IRPA would be inadmissible to Canada. As the IRPA is currently written, its inadmissibility provisions do not align with the basis for imposing the majority of SEMA sanctions issued against Russia, and that is precisely what Bill S-8 seeks to remedy.

These amendments will apply beyond the current situation in Russia and Iran. The proposed amendments will further facilitate the sanctions against terrorist groups and non-state entities, such as al-Qaida and ISIL.

Make no mistake. The proposed amendments will also strengthen Canada's ability to identify and stop sanctioned foreign nationals before they travel to Canada.

Simply put, there are currently no parallel existing grounds of inadmissibility, which is why the legislative amendments proposed in Bill S-8 are so crucial. They will ensure that the Government of Canada's sanctions framework remains cohesive, enforceable and responsive.

The bill will provide Canada with much-needed authorities to hold bad actors to account and to contribute to concerted action with our international allies. It will provide a clear and strong message that the Government of Canada's comprehensive sanctions framework has meaningful consequences, not only from an economic perspective but from an immigration and access to Canada perspective as well.

Thank you for your time, Mr. Chair.

I will be pleased to answer any questions you may have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you very much, Minister.

We will now open the floor to questions from the members. We first have Mr. Genuis.

Mr. Genuis, for this round everyone has been provided six minutes. The floor is yours.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Chair, and thank you, Minister.

You're going to be using, I assume, information from CSIS when you make sanctions inadmissibility determinations. Does CSIS intelligence contribute to decisions about who gets sanctioned under SEMA or is otherwise deemed inadmissible?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

I would say that they are one of a number of agencies that contribute to the analysis that is undertaken by Global Affairs prior to listing under SEMA.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you for that answer.

How often are you briefed directly by CSIS?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

I'm briefed routinely, certainly at least once a week, and often more frequently than that.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Okay, you receive direct briefings from CSIS once a week or more often.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

That's correct.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

My understanding as well is that CSIS often communicates through written products, through intelligence assessments.

Do you read intelligence assessments as well, separately from those briefings?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Yes. It's not always supported by written assessments, but yes, I see written assessments, intelligence assessments.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Do you read all intelligence assessments that come into your department?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

I certainly get summaries of intelligence assessments, and then that is supplemented by verbal and other briefings from CSIS officials.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Who receives the full intelligence assessments, and who's responsible for summarizing or deciding what information to bring to your attention or not bring to your attention?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

My deputy minister and chief of staff are the two most principal advisers to me, who help to prioritize exactly what is put before me in terms of intelligence.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Would your chief of staff and deputy minister read all intelligence assessments, then?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

I'm fairly confident that, yes, between the two of them, as well as the staff who are in their offices, they are able to get access to those reports and then help prioritize what gets put before me.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Just to put a fine point on it to make sure I'm understanding right, because I'm sure they're able to get access to them, if an intelligence assessment is sent to your department, can you say that, yes, the deputy minister and the chief of staff read them, or one of them reads them, or would they be reading a summary that somebody else prepared for them?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

I think often it's both. In other words, they will get both the complete report and the summary. Sometimes, from the reading of the report, they will prepare summaries that then directly come to me.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Your expectation is that both of them would receive and read the intelligence reports.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

And that they are delivered, yes. That's correct.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Have you given CSIS direction in terms of what issues it should or should not brief you on? For example, “Any time X, Y or Z comes up, I want to know about it directly.” Have you given that kind of direction to CSIS?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Yes.