Foreign Affairs Committee on June 6th, 2023

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Okay, yes.

For this round we have two minutes.

Ms. Kramp-Neuman, you have two minutes.

[Shelby Kramp-Neuman, Conservative, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

Excellent. Thank you.

To complement some earlier questions, Mr. Silver, I'd like to ask you this: Do you think that giving Vladimir Kara-Murza honorary Canadian citizenship would have an impact on his situation?

[Brandon Silver]

That's an immensely important question. We're in Parliament advocating for honorary citizenship for Vladimir, because we believe that would offer a life-saving protective cover.

He has written from prison mentioning that.... As an aside, it shows the effectiveness of targeted sanctions. His jailers were the same people who tried to assassinate him twice. He miraculously survived, and they have not tried to assassinate him a third time, because they know the world is watching and cares, and those sanctions have helped in this case.

There's a risk of that attention waning. The acts of aggression and global crises may be shifting. We need to show that we continue to support this expression of Canadian values for someone who testified before this committee and helped make our country's foreign policy more effective and humane. By adopting the very sanctions we're discussing today, he deserves our solidarity and support just as a matter of shared values, let alone for the life-saving actions it will give him.

The jailers in his prison have often said to him, and he's written about this from prison, “Please make sure we're not included in Magnitsky sanctions. Please make sure we're not referenced in international statements.” Those who are holding his life in their hands are watching what this Parliament does. Adopting a motion by unanimous consent to accord him honorary citizenship may very well help save his life, and will certainly be an expression of what this Parliament stands for.

[Shelby Kramp-Neuman, Conservative, Hastings—Lennox and Addington, ON]

That's excellent. Thank you.

My last question is with regard to the Magnitsky sanctions. How do you assess the effectiveness of the sanctions in comparison to other forms of diplomatic or economic pressure, such as traditional sanctions or targeted engagement? Are there any lessons learned or best practices that Canada can share with other countries considering similar measures?

[Brandon Silver]

It's complementary. We believe that oftentimes it can be used to advance Canadian foreign policy goals.

We referenced that earlier as a centre, and followed up on that in our written submissions. For example, in combatting arbitrary detentions, targeted sanctions on those directly responsible for engaging in acts of arbitrary detentions can help shift the calculus in hostage-taking. It's something that the families of those being held hostage feel strongly about. People like Richard Ratcliffe and Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe, who testified before this very committee some years ago, had been referencing this, as well. The combination of diplomatic engagement supplemented by targeted sanctions can help advance a country's foreign policy priorities, and that's just one example.

As well, domestically in Canada, we have a national anti-racism strategy—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Mr. Silver, I apologize for doing this to you again, but we're going to have to move along, because we're very short on time, and you are over time.

Next, we'll go to Mr. Sarai for two minutes.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Thank you.

In light of the time, I'll go to Ms. Mason with some questions that probably haven't been asked.

Are there measures that can prevent innocent victims of sanctions from being harmed, particularly from the banking perspective? You probably see families selling their estates, or businesses that have sold goods prior to a sanction being made, being paid and then perhaps having their funds blocked.

Are there ways and best practices you might have seen in other jurisdictions that our Parliament can learn from in creating measures to prevent innocent victims from being harmed under these sanctions?

[Angelina Mason]

One example is in the U.S., where rather than having to do a specific fact case scenario permit, a general licence is provided. People could have a general licence that captures a general fact scenario that could then be applied to impacted Canadians. It's something as straightforward as what Mr. Alsace mentioned about pensioners being able to receive their funds, and receiving support payments.

In the estate case that you mentioned, you can have either a general licence to deal with that scenario, which allows a great deal of flexibility, or you have guidance—one or the other—that will address that specific type of scenario.

[Randeep Sarai, Liberal, Surrey Centre, BC]

Are there any gaps in the Magnitsky act that can be addressed, or things that could be done to fill in these gaps, for these and, on the reverse side, for those that might slip in that are not currently covered by the act itself?

[Angelina Mason]

It really comes down to ensuring that the policy intent is reflected. Typically, these sanctions are drafted quite broadly, which is appropriate. It's just then the nuance on interpretation. Consistent with other types of regulatory overview, regulators will provide guidance on what's not intended to be captured within, perhaps, broad language that on its face captures everything.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

We next go to Mr. Garon.

You have a minute.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Mason, you talked a lot about the lack of guidelines for the application of sanctions or the fact that the guidelines are drafted quite broadly.

Would you be willing to submit a brief to the committee with recommendations on sanctions enforcement guidelines?

I would like you to provide us with a list or to explain to us the types of guidelines you need on a daily basis to apply sanctions.

[Angelina Mason]

Sure. We'd be happy to follow up with examples from other markets.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Do you have any examples? That could guide our reflections.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Answer very briefly, please.

[Angelina Mason]

Yes, absolutely.

As my fellow witness mentioned, there are over 1,300 FAQs on the U.S. site alone. There are certain specific questions that, if they were to be included in an assessment of our sanctions regime, would be of great assistance.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

For the final one minute, we go to Ms. McPherson.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you very much for that generous time allocation.

This question is for our witnesses from the Canadian Bankers Association. In 2012, changes made by the Harper government led to the sudden closing of Canadian bank accounts due to Ottawa's economic sanctions against Iran. Iranian Canadians who were affected, many of whom had no ties whatsoever to the Iranian regime, were quite frustrated at the time.

Is this a problem that has been resolved in the past 10 years, or are you aware of ongoing problems whereby innocent Canadians' bank accounts may be included in sanctions? If so, what's the remedy for this?

[G. Stephen Alsace]

We're not aware that the problem continues. I think, in part, the challenge in 2012 had to do with a lack of guidance from Global Affairs Canada on the interpretation of some of those sanctions. That's why it's so important either to have written guidance or to make sure we have ongoing discussions and dialogue with Global Affairs Canada to assist in avoiding those kinds of problems in the future.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

That's my minute.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Yes, thank you. It's on the dot.

At this juncture, right before we vote, allow me to thank our three witnesses, Mr. Silver, Madam Mason and Mr. Alsace. We are very grateful for your time and for your expertise.

I have every confidence that your perspectives will very much find their way into our final report. We are very grateful.

We will suspend for the vote. Then, as was agreed by all the members, we will reconvene as soon as it's over.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Welcome back, everyone. We'll now resume our study of the sanctions regime.

It is my great pleasure to welcome several witnesses before our committee. We have, as individuals, Ms. Anaïs Kadian, an attorney; Ms. Erica Moret, senior researcher and coordinator of the sanctions and sustainable peace hub, Geneva Graduate Institute; and Mr. Zaw Kyaw, spokesman for the government in exile of the Republic of the Union of Myanmar.

Witnesses, I should let each of you know that you get five minutes for your opening remarks. After having heard from you, we will open it to the members for questions.

Ms. Kadian, we will first go with you. You have five minutes.

[Anaïs Kadian, Attorney, As an Individual]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Honourable members of the committee, good afternoon. Thank you for inviting me to appear before you today.

My name is Anaïs Kadian. I'm a lawyer specializing in civil and commercial litigation in Montreal. I also have an undergraduate degree in international studies. More recently, I have spoken out with other lawyers and professionals in support of human rights in the heartbreaking situation of the Armenians of Nagorno-Karabakh.

Not too long ago, two of our briefs were submitted to the committee. One is about the review of export permits to Turkey, and the other concerns the status of Nagorno-Karabakh under international law.

Today I would like to speak about the report prepared by the civil society network Hayren Partners for Humanity, which was submitted to this committee. It covers the important opportunity Canada has to respond concretely to the human rights crisis created in Nagorno-Karabakh through targeted economic sanctions against the Azerbaijani regime.

Since this committee’s motion was to “review the need for new recommendations...resulting from Canada’s response to the situation in Ukraine and other situations since 2017”, Nagorno-Karabakh is one of these other situations where new recommendations should be made to Canada’s response.

In fact, the lack of concrete measures, such as sanctions, has unfortunately only served to embolden the Azerbaijani authoritarian regime to continue violating international law and human rights without impediment.

Some recent examples include capturing and torturing Armenian prisoners of war in the fall of 2022, as reported by Human Rights Watch; continuing to hold over 100 prisoners of war and subjecting them to inhumane treatment; continually attacking and killing civilians in border villages and in Karabakh on an almost weekly basis; illegally attacking Armenia last fall, leading to hundreds of deaths and the seizure of 140 square kilometres of sovereign territory; and illegally blocking the Lachin corridor, chokeholding 120,000 indigenous ethnic Armenians from the outside world since last December.

Genocide Watch has qualified the blockade of the Lachin corridor as “a clear attempt by the Azerbaijani government to starve, freeze, and ultimately expel Armenians from Nagorno-Karabakh.”

The Lemkin Institute for Genocide Prevention issued red flag alerts for genocide, stating, “The responsibility for this humanitarian crisis lies solely with the Azerbaijani state and particularly with the regime of President Ilham Aliyev.”

In February 2023, the International Court of Justice ordered Azerbaijan to take all measures to ensure unimpeded movement through the Lachin corridor. Azerbaijan has ignored this order. It remains in blatant violation of the ICJ's decisions to this day.

These human rights and international violations fall squarely in those covered by section 4 of Canada's SEMA and also warrant the application of Canada's Magnitsky law.

The call for sanctions against Azerbaijan has also recently been made by the following government bodies and officials: the European Parliament, in March 2023, which called on the council to impose targeted sanctions against Azerbaijan officials for not respecting the International Court of Justice’s order; the chairman of the U.S. Senate's Foreign Relations Committee, in May; the French Senate and the French National Assembly; and the ambassador from Armenia to Canada, who gave evidence to this very committee in January. Genocide Watch and the Lemkin Institute have also called for sanctions against the Azerbaijani regime officials.

Similarly, this committee should recommend the imposition of targeted sanctions on the Azerbaijani regime in order to uphold human rights, international law and justice. Canada's laws allow it to apply specific actions in a balanced manner, while still maintaining diplomatic relations. Without accountability, there's no justice, and without justice there can be no peace.

Canada has repeatedly affirmed its commitment to promoting international justice and respect for human rights. I think Canadians expect Canada to set an example to protect the rights of Armenians in Nagorno-Karabakh and Armenia, as it does in similar contexts.

I applaud the hard but crucial work of this committee, which has committed to studying these and other issues in order to review Canada's application of the sanctions regime.

Thank you for your attention, and I remain available for any questions you may have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you very much, Ms. Kadian.

We now go to Mr. Kyaw.

You have five minutes, sir.