Foreign Affairs Committee on Feb. 28th, 2022

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

With respect, I'm not looking for context. I'm specifically looking for an answer to the question of why we are not considering giving visa-free travel to Ukrainians in these circumstances, given that 141 countries have done so. I'm not interested in hearing other things that we're doing; I want to know why we're not considering that.

[Jean-Marc Gionet]

In response to that question, Mr. Chair, the reality is that we have existing pathways and are expediting the processing of immigration applications for Ukrainians and persons residing in Ukraine. We are putting them all at the front of the queue. We have put in place measures to waive fees, but we still have to ensure that we do the proper vetting and screening of those applications, even though they are being prioritized and put at the front of the queue. We want to make sure we are able to maximize the use of the pathways that exist.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

I'm sorry to belabour this, but if 141 countries do not require visas, I'm wondering what the rationale is for Canada to still require a visa. What is the concern?

[Jean-Marc Gionet]

Again, the assessment is done on a country-by-country basis, and at the moment it is not under review.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Mr. Davies, thank you very much.

We will go to Mr. Genuis for five minutes.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I won't repeat the question, but I want to say on the record that Conservatives are supportive of and have called for the lifting of the visa requirement as well. It was part of a comprehensive statement that we released on the weekend. Hopefully the government will respond to the calls from multiple opposition parties.

I was going to ask Mr. Rae about his views on war crimes committed by Mr. Putin and by other actors within the Russian military. He has said that he believes that war crimes have taken place. I'd like some clarity from officials on whether that was a personal view or the government's view and what the government's view is with respect to whether Mr. Putin is a war criminal and whether war crimes have been committed in the context of this conflict.

[Sandra McCardell]

Mr. Chair, in any conflict, and particularly one involving civilians as directly as this one has, there needs to be a real concern about the possibility of war crimes.

What I can assure the chair is that we are, as we speak, engaging our legal experts with those from other countries to look very closely at this. You're likely aware that Ukraine itself is already calling for a case at the ICJ related to Russia's invocation of genocide as a justification for its actions. We were working very closely already with our Ukrainian colleagues on, for example, the work of PS752. As well, we are working with our legal colleagues from the Netherlands, with whom we have worked on Syria and Myanmar.

That's to say we're absolutely live to this question; it's important. We need to be very certain of [Technical difficulty—Editor] going forward, and of the facts that can be collected on the ground.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

If I can jump in, you're alive to the question or the possibility. Okay. It sounds like you are not prepared to say that war crimes have taken place, but you believe further investigation is merited. Is that a correct summation of the position of the government?

[Sandra McCardell]

What's important is that we are able to document what's happening on the ground. If it meets the threshold, it needs to be pursued in the correct avenues. We are working with our legal colleagues to make sure that happens.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Okay. I regret that Mr. Rae is not here anymore, because he specifically tweeted five hours ago “war crimes”, with reference to reports of “[d]ozens killed by indiscriminate Russian shelling in...Kharkiv”.

Mr. Rae is saying “war crimes”, and you are saying we need investigations with respect to claims of war crimes. That's not a question; that's a statement of fact, I suppose.

Would you say that Mr. Rae is speaking in a personal capacity and not on behalf of the government when he says that?

[Sandra McCardell]

What's important is that Canada works very closely to understand what's happening on the ground.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you. I want to ask about the protests that are happening inside Russia—the growing Russian opposition.

Has the Government of Canada issued statements with respect specifically to internal Russian opposition? What does the government see as steps that Canada could take in support of the Russian opposition in this moment? Is the government in talks with key Russian opposition figures about these issues?

[Sandra McCardell]

In terms of what's happening inside Russia, we're watching this really closely. It's important. As you know, we have been very supportive in the past of a number of those who've had the courage to stand up to President Putin.

The circumstances are really challenging. As you have seen, a number of those individuals have been arrested or otherwise silenced by President Putin, so how we engage needs to be done in a way that is very respectful of their security.

The other part we're looking at really closely is around the broad question of disinformation. Minister Joly has been very keen to have that issue raised forward. It was raised at the G7 ministers meeting on Saturday. We need to get real facts into Russia, and we need to be able to support those who have a voice of opposition.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Thank you. Please add my voice to those who are calling for us to engage with and support the Russian opposition. One key way we can do that is by following through on Navalny's recommendations with respect to sanctions. I echo the calls from many of my colleagues that we sanction, now, those who are part of Navalny's list. Frankly, I think we should have done that prior to this invasion.

Mr. Chair, I think that's my time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

That is spot on, Mr. Genuis. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Ms. McCardell.

We will now go to Mr. Oliphant, please, for five minutes.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank our officials for their work, in all departments, in continuing to follow this minute by minute, day by day, as a crisis that is unprecedented in our lifetimes in terms of threatening our own peace and security as well as that of friends and neighbours.

Following up on some of the discussions that have happened in today's meeting, as well as this progression of sanctions and other measures that have been taking place, I want to push a bit more on other sanctions.

I am now speaking as the member of Parliament for Don Valley West more than as parliamentary secretary, because I have those two roles in my head. As a member of Parliament, I am wanting our government to push further. I am very clear about that. The limits on that, obviously, are that we need to do this in lockstep with allies, with the like-minded, and that we keep building that momentum towards a constant approach.

Are there other options on the table that we can continue to work with our allies on in terms of sanctions that could reach deep into the economy and the fabric of Russia?

[Sandra McCardell]

Mr. Chair, as I mentioned before, we are looking at other ways we can work with our partners to put additional pressure on Russia, and those will absolutely include sanctions.

I would take note of other tools that are available and that have been putting pressure on Russia as well. Certainly we're seeing consumer groups. We saw the announcement today about products from Russia. We have seen Rogers and Bell announce that they will no longer carry Russia Today. There's a real swelling of popular support for Ukraine, which has a multiplier effect for things we as government can do.

The other thing we as a government need to do is to make sure the sanctions that are in place are implemented properly. Canada is joining a transatlantic task force with the U.S. and the EU to essentially get our technicians and departments together to look very carefully at where the assets are and to work to make sure the sanctions we put in place are effective and are being implemented.

We've also seen, as Ambassador Rae mentioned, that Switzerland, certainly one of the financial centres of Europe, is on board.

We're looking at more sanctions. We're looking at making sure that the sanctions we have are biting and are being implemented properly. We're also looking at essentially being a model for that kind of broader groundswell of world citizens who are following what is happening in Russia.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Thank you very much.

That shows the concerted effort that officials and our political leaders have taken on this issue to ensure that we move not simply passionately but also logically, realistically and concertedly with our allies.

With respect to that, in terms of military intervention and further support, I was obviously very pleased to see that we are sending additional non-lethal equipment and supplies to help Ukrainians in this battle.

I'll turn now to our DND folks. Can you say what other areas we could be considering over the coming days or weeks that could help? I know we have responded to Ukraine's requests early, and I'm just wondering if there are other things you are beginning to consider that we as parliamentarians should be mindful of.

[MGen Paul Prévost]

Thank you, Mr. Oliphant and Mr. Chair.

We are constantly looking at what we can do. We are looking at what we have right now, and you will have seen that we've sent four flights already in recent weeks, with lethal and non-lethal aid. We are continuing to look at what we can do inside of the fence to provide more. The minister was clear about that yesterday. I believe my colleagues from Foreign Affairs may have a bit more on yesterday's announcement regarding the $25 million.

We'll continue to do what we can, but it's important to remember that Canada's best contribution has been to be the strongest ally for Ukraine since 2015. We have the biggest presence in the training missions. That is Canada's best contribution. We're glad to see that our allies are now sending more aid to theatre. We've been there from the beginning and we will continue to do whatever we can to help the Ukrainians.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Thank you very much. I wanted you to say that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you, Major-General Prévost.

Thank you, Mr. Oliphant.

We will now go to our next round, our third round, and we'll lead off with a five-minute allocation for Mr. Aboultaif.

Please go ahead, sir.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Thank you, Chair, and thanks to the witnesses.

With respect to immigration, I'm sure most of us have a large number of respectful communities, and people are asking about what could happen in terms of immigration, because no matter how the military operation and war end, at the end of the day there will be many displaced people within Ukraine; some have already left the country.

The question is, probably for Mr. Gionet, how ready are we to assist Ukrainians who want to come here, or families who want to sponsor or bring their relatives here? Do you have any idea? Are we ready? Do we have preparations for the numbers?

If you could brief us on that, it would be great.

[Julie Sunday, Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Consular, Security and Emergency Management, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

Mr. Chair, I can answer this from a consular perspective, which will deal with some of the request but not all of it, obviously.

We are providing consular services to Canadian citizens, permanent residents and their dependants, or their immediate family members. Our embassies in the region are ready to help them get out of Ukraine. We have our emergency watch and response centre fully activated. People can call 24-7. If a Canadian passport is required, the emergency watch and response centre can help coordinate issuance with consular officials at border checkpoints in Poland, Romania, Hungary and Slovakia. We also have an office right now in Rzeszow, Poland, which is close to the border. We are working with embassies in Warsaw, Bucharest, Vienna and Budapest to provide essential services to Canadians and their family members and permanent residents and their family members. We're well positioned and are providing that support.

We also have our standing rapid deployment team, which is sort of a surge team that we're able to bring into the region very quickly. They require only four hours' notice to move and to bolster our resources at the borders to help move any of these complex consular cases or family cases forward—

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Do you have any idea of the number of cases we've seen in the last few days? You must have some record of that.

[Julie Sunday]

We've seen a surge in our calls. There's been a significant number of calls. Right now we have 1,045 Canadians registered on our formal ROCA, our registration of Canadians abroad. This number is likely low, because this is a voluntary registration. Certainly we are there. We are available for people to reach out to us directly. We have been publicizing how to get in touch with us. IRCC also has a phone line set up. They would be dealing with visa and immigration requests there.

The last thing I would mention is that we also launched a crisis website on February 19. People can go there and get border information or information on public health requirements, etc.

I can tell you that in Poland documentation is not an issue. People are getting out. The borders are very permissive right now. Certainly, people are getting across if they want to.