Foreign Affairs Committee on March 3rd, 2022

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

The situation there is very concerning. We have expressed our serious concern. The Prime Minister has been personally involved. In fact, I met with David Miliband from the International Rescue Committee. They actually lost some of their members who were killed there. We very strongly expressed our concern with that.

We will always continue to provide the humanitarian support. We need to provide that support. We have stopped on the development aid side, but we need to continue humanitarian support. In fact, we are pushing for making sure that humanitarian aid does continue, especially into the conflict-affected areas.

Did you want to add anything to that?

[Peter MacDougall]

We're placing special attention on ensuring humanitarian access, particularly in the Tigray region, through advocacy, working with both the Ethiopian government and the Tigrayan side.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Are there any instruments or methods by which you will be doing it?

[Peter MacDougall]

We're working through our embassy in Addis Ababa, primarily.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

How are the agencies that Canada relies on to distribute these funds accounting for their direct use for the people of Tigray?

[Peter MacDougall]

In Ethiopia, as in many countries, we rely most heavily on the UN system of agencies, which includes the World Food Programme, OCHA and the International Committee of the Red Cross. We have long-standing relationships. They're credible, trusted partners, and they report back to us and all donors on the use of our funds.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Thank you. That's it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Thank you very much, Ms. Idlout, and thank you to our witnesses.

Mr. Morantz, please. You have five minutes.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here. It's been a very interesting discussion.

I want to talk to you about the broader role that charities can play in assisting your efforts in international development and assistance. Obviously, government has a major role to play, but charities also can play a major role in this regard.

Right now, there are three pieces of legislation at various stages in our system. Two of them are Senator Omidvar's. Bill S-216 is the effective and accountable charities act, and Bill S-217 is the frozen assets repurposing act. There is my own private member's bill, Bill C-240, which is the supporting Canadian charities act.

There's really no home in government for charities. In fact, my colleague, Mr. Genuis, asked a question about Bill S-216 a few days ago in question period and no one seemed to be able to answer the question. It was about what's happening with the idea of reforming the concept around direction control for charitable purposes. Senator Omidvar's bill would loosen that restriction by making it so that the charity would have to take reasonable steps in this regard.

How open are you to these types of bills in order to assist charities across the country in helping you do your job in international assistance and development?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

You raise a very important question. I have always said, not only in my previous portfolio but even beforehand, that I've seen on the ground the tremendous work that charities can do because they have unique access. Even some that are small can have a massive impact, which I personally have seen.

I have made it a personal goal to work with a lot of Canadian charities and NGOs. I've been trying to speak with many of them so that our department can be more efficient. Putting the bill proposal aside, we will continue in our department to create and work toward greater efficiency. That's something we will definitely do.

When it comes to this particular bill, it doesn't impact us for us to continue, because it's more how the CRA functions. We are looking at how we can be more efficient. I think all our colleagues who are responsible for this would be open to looking at opportunities to allow charities to be more effective on the ground. At the same time, as the ministers responsible for our respective portfolios and taxpayer dollars, the control and accountability mechanisms also need to be in place. We need to figure out the right method and the balance for it.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

I appreciate your answer, but it leads to really the broader question as to the home in government for charities. For example when Mr. Genuis asked the question about Senator Omidvar's bill, no one was able to answer. The Minister of National Revenue twice gave an answer that was not at all related to the question. You alluded to the fact that really this is a national revenue issue, but the Minister of National Revenue couldn't answer the question. The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance and the Minister of Finance couldn't answer this question.

There needs to be a place in government where thought can be had around bringing these issues together as to how charities can be leveraged for all kinds of reasons, including international development and assistance. Wouldn't you agree with that premise?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

In fact, I actually want to figure out new ways in terms of how we can work with charities, provide for greater efficiencies and look at the mechanisms we use in the department—I've already spoken with our leadership about this—to look at how we can be more efficient.

Even without the bill we're going to try to find efficiencies. I'll let you know that, after that question, our teams have been working on and discussing this topic with departments. We will provide our input into it.

[Marty Morantz, Conservative, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

I'm glad you mentioned that, because when Minister Gould, your predecessor, was here last April, which is almost a year ago, she said that. She said she was engaging with civil society partners here in Canada to better understand their concerns and was liaising with the Department of Finance on the issue.

Are you doing the same thing? It's a year since that statement was made. These bills, particularly Bill S-216, would provide a valuable reform to charitable purposes that would make it much easier for charities to provide international assistance.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

This is one of the reasons.... Actually, when I took over this portfolio, I spoke to Minister Gould about this. In fact, I still stay in touch with her on certain topics that obviously I may not have the detailed knowledge on. This is one thing that we did look at and that we will continue to look at. I'm always open to looking at opportunities. We'll work with the other departments on this.

I completely agree with you that we do need to find these. If there are opportunities where we can have our charities be more effective, we should take those. However, we also need to be mindful of making sure that the accountability is also there and that we have the proper impact on the ground.

I'll close with this, if you don't mind. I've always said that our civil society charities are a powerhouse for making change and preventing conflict. Sometimes it requires us to coordinate some of that work. I can assure you that the department is actually seized with this. When I came in, they were the ones who already had these relationships built.

We need to figure out how we can work better together. Sometimes one organization has a skill set doing one thing and another organization has a skill set doing something else. It's about how they can work together in a certain area and be even more effective.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

Mr. Morantz, thank you very much.

Minister, thank you.

Ms. Bendayan, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being with us today at committee. I understand the importance of your next meeting. Whatever time you need to leave, please feel free to do so. I can continue with your officials.

It is my understanding that a few days ago, UNICEF indicated that there were access issues on the ground making it difficult to deliver critical supplies and services to Ukrainians. Earlier today, I believe, there were talks in Belarus between Ukrainian and Russian officials. During those discussions today there was a preliminary understanding on creating safe corridors for the provision of humanitarian aid.

I'm wondering what you can tell our committee about those discussions that happened only hours ago.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

I was just informed about those discussions. It is hopeful, with strong optimism, that it stays true. This will really depend on the Putin regime and their military leadership allowing this to happen. We are very concerned with humanitarian access. Organizations have had to make some significant changes. The local organizations have also had some significant impact themselves.

What we will do is to make sure that the appropriate supplies across the border can get to the appropriate agencies that can then feed into the United Nations. One thing I have taken away is that I will be discussing with the various United Nations leads how they will provide, not directly themselves but with some of the local organizations who have direct access, to those communities.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Thank you, Minister.

There are also indications that Russia may resort to siege tactics, given the limited progress over the last number of days in their illegal invasion.

I wonder what impact you think this will have on our ability to get humanitarian assistance to Ukrainians.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

The impact will all depend on Putin's regime. International law clearly states that providing humanitarian support for civilians is something that needs to continue. We expect President Putin to abide by the international law. Otherwise, we will continue to hold him to account as we are looking at some of the other international crimes that have allegedly been committed.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Thank you.

I would like to also ask about the announcement that our government made on Monday regarding the $100 million in aid. How quickly do you anticipate that we can deliver assistance through this funding to Ukrainians on the ground in need?

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

In fact, the team is already working on it. I spoke with the deputy head of the UNHCR just yesterday. The team is already working out a plan. We need to make sure that the funds go to the right place, where the needs are, for example, whether it's going to be outside the border or inside. Our department will take all that balance into account.

What I also want to say is that the $100 million is what we provided, but we also anticipated it early on with the earlier funding to make sure that funding would always be there and continue. As we announce one and they get set up to flow, there was already something flowing. The goal is to make sure the support continues to flow and that we continue to fill the gaps as they're identified.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Thank you very much, Minister.

I'm happy to let you go to your meeting.

Mr. Chair, how much longer do I have?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sven Spengemann]

You have one minute.

[Rachel Bendayan, Liberal, Outremont, QC]

Thank you very much.

I would like to ask if it's possible to get a little bit more information regarding the work of organizations on the ground in the Ukraine at the moment. I understand that we are working through partners at the United Nations, but I feel it would be interesting for this committee to get a better understanding of the NGO network in Ukraine. I'm happy to take that answer now, or, if you prefer, officials could follow up in writing.

[Harjit S. Sajjan, Liberal, Vancouver South, BC]

I'll follow up with you as soon as we get the information.

I've spoken to and have been in close contact with UCC, who have access to the different organizations looking at what those needs are. We already have the early funding that we provided to those organizations so they could be as flexible as possible. As our assistant deputy minister has already stated, we are still in communication and we need to make sure that continues. That's why the humanitarian corridor is going to be very important for this.