Foreign Affairs Committee on Feb. 7th, 2024

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

I've been losing a lot of sleep on this issue of getting Canadians out of Gaza, usually in different countries we organize consular services so that once Canadians are able to leave, they just leave; they don't necessarily need an authorization, depending on the country. When it comes to Gaza, we need to get approval to get Canadians out, to get anybody out, and that approval needs to come from Israel, through COGAT, which is part of the Ministry of Defense. Also, Canadians getting out of Gaza need to get approval from Egypt. Coordination between these two governments is not always seamless, to say the least.

While the delay has sometimes been frustrating, to be frank, we absolutely need to make sure Canadians who go through the Rafah gate are able to go while it's secure. There's been shelling of the Rafah gate region, which has been making it very difficult to get Canadians to go to the Rafah gate.

From the moment they're at the Rafah gate, the team in Cairo goes to meet them and take care of them. We have an agreement with Egypt that Canadians coming out of Gaza need to leave Egypt 48 hours after they have left Gaza. That's why we also worked with Canadians to make sure they were able to travel to Canada, and if they don't necessarily have the funding for it, we have a loan program that is very efficient we've worked on.

I must say, Sameer, that since I have constituents myself who have family in Gaza, this has been something I've been putting a lot of pressure and energy into. I must thank Julie Sunday, who's the head of our consular affairs and also the hostage negotiation team, because she has been doing fantastic work in a very difficult situation.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

Thank you for that.

In my remaining time, I want to ask you about Canada's presence today over the last eight-plus years with respect to being involved in multilateral organizations like the UN, UNHCR, the G7, the G20, etc., and how that contrasted with the previous governments of the past and the work we're doing to actually be at that stage with other countries at multilateral fora.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

We believe in the UN. I must say that I'm looking at my friends from the Conservative Party and I don't know what their official position is or whether they're in favour of the UN or not, but I know Michael is looking at me right now. Sometimes silence speaks even louder, so I want to make sure my colleagues all agree that the UN is important.

That said, we need more people at the UN. Global Affairs Canada needs more researchers, more diplomats, because the world has changed. It has changed since the Harper government was there and it has changed since when we were in power before the pandemic. That's just the reality of it. I told you at the beginning that we're in an international security crisis, so we need more diplomats at the UN and at the G20, working within the different organizations of the UN, including, for example, in Geneva, at ICAO, etc., because we have many governments that are trying to change the rules of the game, including China. If we are not at the table and if we don't have the capacity, we're not able to defend our interests.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you very much.

We'll go back to MP Larouche. You have five minutes.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

My apologies. You have two an a half minutes, Madame Larouche.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

I understood that.

Madam Minister, I'm going to talk about parliamentary diplomacy, since you make no mention of it in your documents.

I would like to know how Global Affairs Canada could encourage the participation of elected officials who are generally open to the idea of contributing to a positive image of Canada. Several witnesses mentioned that it would be useful to promote this exercise.

What's your view on parliamentary diplomacy?

We had a bit of an embarrassing situation with Ukraine, where you've just returned from. Unless I'm mistaken, you didn't have any opposition members with you, as you did in your previous travels. In fact, Canada is one of the only G7 countries that didn't send a parliamentary delegation there. However, we pride ourselves on being Ukraine's closest ally on this issue, which goes beyond party division. This committee tried to travel to Ukraine, but it was refused for security reasons, as reported by The Hill Times.

Why is security a prerogative for parliamentarians and not for ministers?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Larouche.

We all agree that parliamentary diplomacy is important. It's certainly not within the purview of Global Affairs Canada, as it is the prerogative of Parliament. I think that if we had talked about parliamentary diplomacy, the presence of a conflict between the legislative branch and the executive branch would have been invoked.

That's why we'll continue to support and strengthen the various parliamentary groups, including parliamentary friendship groups. I think we still have to work on that, and we always have to work on that. Indeed, we now know that the better we are at maintaining diplomatic ties at various levels, with various governments, the better. That was the first element.

The second is with respect to Ukraine. MP Stéphane Bergeron asked me to address this issue. He told me about it again yesterday. I feel like I'm hearing Mr. Bergeron when you speak to me, Ms. Larouche.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

He raised it with me as well.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

I heard him, and I hear you. However, these matters go through the Parliamentary Protective Service, which then has to pass them on. PPS doesn't necessarily pass them on to Global Affairs Canada, but rather to the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces. I think it's a good idea for Canadian parliamentarians to go to Ukraine. I think some of you, including Ms. McPherson, have been there, but in a different way. In any case, we can certainly look into the matter.

Unfortunately, it's not just my responsibility. In fact, it's mainly a matter for the Minister of National Defence and even, before that, for the Speaker of the House.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you very much.

We now go to MP McPherson. You have two and a half minutes.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I think I'm going to change the channel a little bit.

It is International Development Week. I understand that you are not the international development minister. However, there is funding that does come through your ministry, in particular for human rights. We are hearing some really disturbing stories from the sector, from representatives of CSOs across Canada, that those who have been doing great work on human rights, particularly with support for women and girls, which should align with our feminist international assistance policy, are waiting enormous amounts of time and things are getting entangled.

In fact, they're telling us that there are funding delays and a lack of information from your office. They're telling me that you're failing to uphold the FIAP and that they fear the cuts made in the past years are going to hurt Canada's work globally.

I'm wondering why the approvals from your office—this is on your side in Global Affairs—and your colleagues' offices are taking so long. Why are there are these refusals to fund multiple human rights projects, particularly those looking at women and girls?

Before I pass it over to you, Minister, we have been waiting years now for a feminist foreign policy. We have been told it exists. We have been told that is somewhere in the ether, but we have not seen it. Should we be giving up on this? Is this policy never going to come forward?

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

Heather, regarding your first point—which is basically that organizations are waiting for funding—it is the first time I'm personally hearing about it. I'll look into this issue. It is unacceptable and we will solve it.

David, please make sure that we work on this.

Second, on the question on the feminist foreign policy, we live it every day. We have had a feminist approach in our foreign policy since we were elected. I've met so many organizations.... Just coming back from Ukraine, I met with survivors of gender-based violence. All the work we've done with women and girls around the world, we'll continue to do that.

I know the minister of trade is working on this issue also, in supporting women entrepreneurs. I know of course the minister of international development, whom you were referring to, has been working on support for women and girls—

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

However, without a policy written down, other organizations can't measure how we're doing. We can't see how Canada is doing when we don't have a written policy—

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

No, no. Wait, wait.

We have a women, peace and security ambassador, Jacqueline O'Neill, who is doing great work. We've been following the results on everything we do, so no.

I think our approach when it comes to our feminist foreign policy is data-driven, is results-oriented and will—

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

But it doesn't exist, to be fair.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

It exists. We abide by it every day—

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

We would need to see it to be able to say it existed.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

—and therefore we will continue to work on it, but Canadians can be reassured that this is our approach and that we will continue to make sure that it is lived every day.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

Minister, we are almost exactly at the one-hour mark. There are two more questions remaining.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

I feel like I'm around my family right now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Okay, that sounds great.

[Mélanie Joly, Liberal, Ahuntsic-Cartierville, QC]

It's not easy, but hey....

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

We will now proceed with the last two questions.

We first have MP Genuis. You have five minutes.