Evidence of meeting #97 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was turkey.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:35 p.m.
Director, Eastern Europe and Eurasia, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
The department has no direct contact with UNESCO.
I'll have to get back to you on that later.
5:35 p.m.
Senior Arctic Official and Director General, Arctic, Eurasian and European Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
UNESCO is following the developments on this file. That's what I—
5:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
Thank you. I'm afraid we're considerably over.
Next we will go to MP McPherson.
You have six minutes.
February 28th, 2024 / 5:35 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to both of you for being here today [Inaudible—Editor] democracy unfolds.
I am just following up on something that Mr. Bergeron asked with regard to the end of our presumptive denial policy for applications to export or broker group 2 items to Turkey. Obviously, that was a problematic decision for many people, and it was made by the government. Certainly, in my office, I got an awful lot of correspondence about that issue.
Of course, the rumours are that it was very closely related to the inclusion of Sweden in NATO, which we're very happy about. It does seem, however, that it's a bit of horse-trading that may not be in line with our Arms Trade Treaty obligations.
I'm wondering if you could tell me a little about why the Government of Canada chose to end its presumptive denial policy for applications to export or broker group 2 items. Could you perhaps go into some of the factors that were considered in making this decision?
5:35 p.m.
Senior Arctic Official and Director General, Arctic, Eurasian and European Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
This decision wasn't taken overnight. Since 2021, Canada and Turkey have been engaged in regular dialogue on export controls with a view to building confidence and greater co-operation. As a result of that three-year long dialogue and of commitments received from Turkey, Canada decided to revert to the long-standing practice of reviewing export permit applications for group 2 exports on a case-by-case basis, including for military items, so every export application is reviewed.
5:35 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Then there was no correlation between Sweden's accession to NATO and this decision by the Government of Canada.
5:35 p.m.
Senior Arctic Official and Director General, Arctic, Eurasian and European Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Trade among NATO allies was definitely part of the discussions.
5:35 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
To be fair, though, I asked about the accession of Sweden to NATO.
5:35 p.m.
Senior Arctic Official and Director General, Arctic, Eurasian and European Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Yes, I'm getting there.
5:35 p.m.
Senior Arctic Official and Director General, Arctic, Eurasian and European Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
The decision was consistent with our commitment made in the communiqué of the NATO summit in Vilnius to “reduce and eliminate...obstacles to defence trade and investment”. We were also clear, however, that we wanted Turkey to ratify Sweden's accession. Resolving both of these issues, I would say, strengthens the alliance.
5:35 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
That's an interesting answer.
Does the Government of Canada have any concerns that Canadian goods that are subject to export controls and exported to Turkey could be re-exported to Azerbaijan? Can you give your rationale for that, please?
There are bells, sir.
5:40 p.m.
Senior Arctic Official and Director General, Arctic, Eurasian and European Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
As part of the conditions for export permits to Turkey, there needs to be an end-use statement that the goods will not be re-exported outside of any NATO allies, other than Ukraine. There is always the option to reimpose the blanket pause, if you will, on exports.
5:40 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Are you quite comfortable, then, that this will suffice?
5:40 p.m.
Senior Arctic Official and Director General, Arctic, Eurasian and European Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Yes.
5:40 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Okay.
I'm going to ask one other quick question, if I can finish my six minutes. Is that all right?
5:40 p.m.
NDP
Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
On November 17, the International Court of Justice issued an interim order that called on Azerbaijan to ensure that those who left Nagorno-Karabakh after September 19 and wanted to return are “able to do so in a safe, unimpeded and expeditious manner”. It also called on the Azerbaijani government to ensure that those who wish to stay “are free from the use of force or intimidation that may cause them to flee.”
To what extent, if at all, is the Azerbaijani government complying with the International Court of Justice interim order? Does the Government of Canada support the ICJ recommendations in this particular case? Of course, we've seen other cases where they have not.
5:40 p.m.
Senior Arctic Official and Director General, Arctic, Eurasian and European Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
We're a rule of law nation, and the ICJ interim order has much merit to it.
In terms of what is happening on the ground, I would note that in the military operation, the Azeri military was, as we understand it, careful not to inflict collateral damage. In terms of creating the conditions to return, that's going to be a long-term process.
As I noted, we have decades of fear on both sides to overcome. It's definitely something we'll continue to watch closely.
5:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
We now have 27 minutes before a vote. Is it the opinion of members that we should adjourn? Is there unanimous support to adjourn the meeting?
5:40 p.m.
An hon. member
No.
5:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ali Ehsassi
We'll continue on.
I have one more round of maybe three minutes per party. Is that good?
5:40 p.m.
Conservative
Dave Epp Conservative Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON
We'd have a little more time than that, wouldn't we?
