Foreign Affairs Committee on March 18th, 2024

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here.

Mr. Lévêque, thank you for committing in your opening remarks to providing the committee with the documents it requires. However, I would like to say something. On December 6, the committee requested written responses on Canada's voting process at the United Nations, on export permits, on the International Criminal Court and on the International Court of Justice, but the committee is still waiting for those responses.

My first questions are about Israel's blockade of basic necessities since the start of the conflict. The supplies are coming in through Rafah in a very piecemeal fashion. Despite the famine that ensued, the Department of Foreign Affairs has never expressed the view that what Israel is doing violates international law. I would like to know if that is still the case. What is the department's current position? Does it consider Israel's actions to be in violation of international law?

[Alexandre Lévêque]

In response to your first comment, I will personally commit to providing you with the missing answers to the questions that were asked at the December 6 meeting. I assure you that it will be done as soon as possible.

With regard to humanitarian aid in Gaza, Canada's position is that the current situation, however you describe it, is tragic. The human suffering is unprecedented. Our position is to do absolutely everything we can to facilitate the delivery of essential aid, including by land. We are constantly pressuring the Israeli government to open as many road crossings as possible, which remain the most effective way to get humanitarian aid into the Gaza Strip. We need to contribute to the airdrops coordinated by Jordan. We will also contribute to the humanitarian sea corridor between Cyprus and the Gaza Strip. We absolutely want to provide support on all of these fronts.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

I notice you didn't say yes, meaning it is a violation of international law.

In November, in the wake of the atrocities committed by Hamas, the government called on Israel to exercise restraint. Do you think Israel exercised, or is exercising, restraint?

[Alexandre Lévêque]

It depends on the measure you use and the interpretation you make. What I can tell you is that we see the current violence as taking a devastating humanitarian toll. I repeat, we are applying pressure at every level to urge Israel to exercise as much restraint as possible, from speaking to officials and participating in working groups to reaching out to departments and leaders. We consider all the death and suffering occurring in the current circumstances to be a tragedy. Therefore, more can always be done to encourage that restraint.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you.

As far as Israel's actions are concerned, has Global Affairs Canada done an assessment and established any red lines that mustn't be crossed?

[Alexandre Lévêque]

I wouldn't describe any of the actions as red lines, per se, other than the fundamental principles we have reiterated, including those you mentioned.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

I take it there aren't any red lines vis-à-vis future actions either.

[Alexandre Lévêque]

Nothing that we've characterized in that way.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you.

We next go to MP MacGregor.

You have four minutes.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for being here today.

Mr. Lévêque, I just want to run through the numbers to ensure I have them correct.

Did you say it was seven employees from UNRWA who were implicated in the interim report?

[Alexandre Lévêque]

I believe it was 12.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

That's out of a total organization strength of around 30,000?

[Alexandre Lévêque]

It's 33,000 overall, 13,000 in Gaza.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

The leader of the opposition recently referred to UNRWA as a terrorist organization.

Does Global Affairs Canada feel it's reasonable to hold an organization that employs 33,000 people accountable for the actions of 12 of its members?

Does the department share the view that that's the correct terminology to use in this case?

[Alexandre Lévêque]

The department considers UNRWA to be a UN organization or a sub-body that belongs to the UN family. We do not—

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Sorry.

Is the department aware of any of our major allies that hold that view, holding the entire UNRWA organization accountable for the actions of 12 of its employees?

[Alexandre Lévêque]

Not that I'm aware of. No country has referred to UNRWA as a terrorist organization.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you for getting that on the record.

Human Rights Watch has argued that the demise of UNRWA would be catastrophic for Gaza. Does the Government of Canada share that view?

To add some context, how do you place UNRWA in terms of its ability to deliver aid to the people of Gaza?

[Alexandre Lévêque]

We believe that UNRWA is an absolutely essential organization in the current context to be able to deliver humanitarian assistance to people in grave need in Gaza, not just because of the internal networks that they run to deliver humanitarian assistance but also because they are the organization that other humanitarian actors use inside Gaza. The World Food Programme could not deliver its food to Gazans if it wasn't for UNRWA. UNICEF could not reach the children they need to reach if it wasn't for UNRWA. It is really the backbone of humanitarian assistance in Gaza.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

To be clear, when you're talking about grave need, we're referring to catastrophic destruction of necessary infrastructure and lack of access to medical supplies, food and basic shelter.

Am I correct in outlining those?

[Alexandre Lévêque]

That would be correct.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you.

You mentioned in your opening statements about Israel's right to defend itself. I think everyone around this committee understands that right is afforded to any nation-state around the world.

What I want you to help me understand is, in the destruction that's going on in Gaza and the catastrophe that we're all witnessing day by day, that's happening and being inflicted on the Palestinian people who live there, at what point does the Government of Canada's understanding of the right to defend itself transition?

Is Israel still meeting that defined right to defend itself with the destruction that's going on in Gaza right now?

[Alexandre Lévêque]

What I would say is that Israel really is at war right now; it is at war with Hamas. I can tell you having stood three kilometres from the border with Gaza that I could hear gunfire, automatic rifles going off. That's not civilians fighting the IDF, the Israel Defense Forces; that is a terrorist organization. We could hear artillery fire going in. That war really is happening right now. It continues.

The position of the government, and certainly the analysis of the department, is that maximum restraint and consideration for civilian life must be a consideration at all times. We've seen phenomenal destruction and grave human suffering that we have called out. We've said numerous times that it should be reduced, should be brought to.... On both sides, the violence has to stop.

It is very difficult to give to you an exact measure, but the trend and generally what Canadians and what this government have advocated for is a lowering of the temperature, lessening of violence and increased consideration for civilians and human life in Gaza.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

We'll next go to MP Chong.

You have three minutes.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Canada's long-standing, many-decades-long position has been to recognize the State of Israel, with which we've had diplomatic relations for decades. It's also been our long-standing position not to recognize the state of Palestine. We'll recognize that state if it culminates...as the result of negotiations between the State of Israel and the Palestinian people.

Does the Government of Canada believe it's time to change that long-standing position and immediately recognize the state of Palestine?