Foreign Affairs Committee on March 18th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

I'd like to call this meeting to order. We apologize for the delay in commencing.

Welcome to meeting number 98 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development. Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the Standing Orders. Therefore, members are attending in person in the room as well as remotely via the Zoom application.

I'd like to make a few comments for the benefit of the witnesses and, of course, for the members as well.

Before speaking, please do wait until I recognize you by name. You may speak in the official language of your choice.

Although this room is equipped with a powerful audio system, feedback events can occur. These can be extremely harmful to interpreters and cause serious injuries. The most common cause, I will remind all of you, is sound feedback, which occurs when an earpiece is worn too close to a microphone.

With regard to a speaking list, the committee clerk and I will do our best to maintain a consolidated order of speaking for all members.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee will proceed to hear from officials with a briefing on the situation in Israel and Gaza.

I'd like to welcome our distinguished witnesses. We're very fortunate to have here before us Mr. Alexandre Lévêque, who of course is the assistant deputy minister for Europe, Arctic, Middle East and Maghreb. We also have with us Mr. Louis-Martin Aumais, director general and deputy legal adviser for the public international law bureau. Lastly, we have Mr. Sébastien Beaulieu, director general and chief security officer, and he is with the security and emergency management office.

You have five minutes for your opening remarks, Mr. Lévêque. Thank you for being here.

[Alexandre Lévêque, Assistant Deputy Minister, Europe, Arctic, Middle East and Maghreb, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair and members of the committee. Thank you again for the invitation to brief the committee today on events in Israel, the Gaza Strip and the West Bank.

The situation has evolved substantially since my last appearance in December. My remarks today will focus on how the conflict is evolving and on Canada's response.

Before I begin, I would like to briefly address the motion adopted by this committee on February 12, 2024, regarding the production of papers on Canada's military export permits to Israel. The department provided a package on March 13 in response to this motion. We look forward to working with you to ensure the smooth delivery of documents to support the committee in its study.

For Canada, it remains clear that a sustainable ceasefire is necessary to finding a path towards securing lasting peace for Israelis and Palestinians. Of course, such a ceasefire cannot be one-sided. Hamas must lay down its arms and release all hostages.

There is growing international consensus around the urgent need for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire. Canada continues to monitor negotiations led by the U.S., Egypt and Qatar towards this end.

Foreign Affairs Minister Joly recently visited the Middle East, which allowed her to witness first-hand the effects this conflict has had and continues to have on Israelis, on Palestinians and, indeed, on the broader region.

The minister has met with her counterparts and a variety of officials and organizations. She reaffirmed that allegations of sexual violence against women in the Israel‑Gaza conflict should be investigated and that the perpetrators should be held accountable. The Minister of International Development, Mr. Hussen, is also very involved, as shown by his visits to Jordan and Egypt, particularly Rafah, to see the impact of Canada's humanitarian aid.

The government continues to emphasize that it supports Israel's right under international law to defend itself against Hamas's terrorist acts. All actors must respect international humanitarian law, which includes allowing the unimpeded delivery of humanitarian aid to those in need.

As stated by the Prime Minister last month alongside his counterparts from Australia and New Zealand, Canada is gravely concerned by Israel's planned military offensive on the city of Rafah. This would risk catastrophic consequences for the approximately 1.5 million Palestinians taking refuge in the area. Rafah remains the main entry point for humanitarian aid going into Gaza, and Canada continues to urge the Israeli government not to go down this path.

The need for consistent humanitarian assistance in Gaza has never been greater. It is clear much more is needed to address the urgent humanitarian needs of Palestinians. Canada remains one of the largest contributors of humanitarian and development assistance to vulnerable Palestinians, with contributions of $100 million in the past year to address the current crisis in Gaza.

Following serious allegations that staff of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East, better known as UNRWA, were involved in Hamas's terrorist attacks against Israel on October 7, 2023, Canada decided to temporarily suspend its funding to UNRWA at the end of January.

In response to the allegations, the UN has put in place several significant, rigorous processes to review the allegations and reinforce zero tolerance for terrorism within the UN, including UNRWA. Canada has reviewed the interim report of the UN Office of Internal Oversight Services on this issue and looks forward to the final report. Canada also welcomes former minister Colonna's ongoing independent review of UNRWA, as well as UNRWA's immediate actions to strengthen monitoring, accountability and transparency.

UNRWA plays an essential and indispensable role in Gaza, providing humanitarian aid to more than two million people, in addition to its crucial activities that support four million people in the region. That was why Canada decided to lift the temporary suspension of funding to UNRWA.

We systematically convey to our Israeli partners the necessity of a two-state solution as the only way for Israel to achieve long-term security and recognition in the region. Canada stands ready to keep supporting the Palestinian authority in its revitalization efforts, and to work with its new technocratic government, once formed, towards implementing governance reforms.

I will stop here. We look forward to answering your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you very much, Mr. Lévêque.

Before we get into questioning, does everyone want to run until 5:30 with questions, or do we want to set aside 15 minutes at the end from 5:15 to 5:30 for committee business?

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Chair, we are fine with spending the last 15 minutes of the meeting on committee business.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you very much, Ms. Normandin.

We will have questions until 5:15, after which we will go into committee business.

We will start with four-minute questions, and Mr. Epp.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the witnesses.

In October, our foreign affairs minister delivered a speech to the Economic Club of Canada that called for a humanitarian truce, as well as the release of hostages, but a few days later Canada abstained from voting on a resolution at the United Nations that called for that humanitarian truce.

How is Canada's lack of a commitment to a coherent foreign policy affecting the outcome, and the ongoing tragedy that's unfolding in Gaza?

[Alexandre Lévêque]

The latest position the government has taken on this goes back to December 12, when the government pronounced itself on promoting and advocating for a ceasefire in the region. We were among the first countries, if not the first country among like-minded, to make that pronouncement. I cannot speak to what other pronouncements the minister might have made before, but the position, since December 12, is very clear. The government has been consistent in calling for a humanitarian ceasefire in Gaza.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

The government has landed on that position now. The IRGC has supported and funded Hamas, which is behind a lot of the sadistic violence and murder of innocent civilians, including many Canadians.

Why has Canada not nailed and identified the IRGC as a terrorist entity, because of the additional evidence now playing out in Gaza?

[Alexandre Lévêque]

The number of tools at the government's disposal to put pressure on Iran, and to make Iran accountable for its actions in the region, is obviously very wide. The state of Iran is already listed as a state sponsor of terrorism. As for decisions that could be made in the future regarding the IRGC, this is a decision the government will make. I'm here to explain what is, and not what the government hasn't done yet.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

The Prime Minister stated the government is looking for a way to list the IRGC in a responsible manner. Is not listing it not irresponsible? Sorry for using so many double negatives, but he's saying he wants a responsible way to list the IRGC. Why is it not happening?

[Alexandre Lévêque]

It's a policy decision.

I couldn't speak for the Prime Minister on this. We are there to provide options. We provide these options to the government so they can make policy decisions.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Allowing them to continue to exist.... Your colleagues from Finance have identified that up to $100 billion of Iranian funds is being snow washed here in Canada through money-laundering schemes. That is funding terrorism, so would that not be enough? Is there not enough evidence to pursue that path?

[Alexandre Lévêque]

A lot of sanctions are in place to help put pressure on Iran. You would be familiar with those.

I forget the exact number, but we have already listed hundreds of IRGC officials, and our sanctions regime is designed precisely to address what you're referring to.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

How does UNRWA fit in then when members of UNRWA have been identified as part of the Hamas terrorist group? How does UNRWA fit in with the IRGC?

[Alexandre Lévêque]

UNRWA is a UN organization guided by UN rules. It employs 33,000 people—13,000 in Gaza alone. The allegations that were made were initially against 11 or 12 individuals.

We immediately saw UNRWA take measures to suspend these individuals. Ever since that, a number of measures have been taken by UNRWA itself to review its processes and to review its processes for clearing employees.

The UN headquarters, led by the Secretary-General, have put measures in place. We've been briefed on interim reports that the office of control of the UN has written, so we can see that immediate measures were taken. The bad apples, if you will, the negative elements, were fired to allow the organization that is absolutely essential to humanitarian assistance in Gaza to continue to operate.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

There has been enough evidence—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Thank you, Mr. Epp. We're at 4:40. I apologize.

We next go to Mr. Zuberi.

You have four minutes, Mr. Zuberi.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

I'd like to thank the witnesses, Mr. Lévêque and his team, for being here.

I would like to touch upon the minister's recent trip to Israel, the West Bank and the region. I took note of a number of tweets and social media posts about some of the accomplishments of the minister's trip. They included two announcements, both related to protecting the rights of women from sexual and gender-based violence.

The first tweet I saw said that Canada was giving $1 million to support the victims of sexual-based violence on October 7. That tweet was very clear about Hamas being the aggressors.

A second tweet I read said that Canada was giving $1 million to support Palestinian women who were the victims of sexual and gender-based violence, but it was unclear who the alleged party committing these crimes actually was and where the money was going in each of the two $1-million tranches.

[Alexandre Lévêque]

Mr. Chair, I can address this. I had the pleasure of accompanying Minister Joly on her trip to the Middle East and I was part of those meetings. I can say that this was actually addressed at quite some length in a round table with women's rights advocates, particularly experts on sexual and gender-based violence, with the First Lady of Israel and then in a follow-up conversation with President Herzog of Israel.

On your first question, allegations have been made. You're right about the atrocities on October 7, which were clearly committed by Hamas. There is a lot of evidence that points towards the sexual crimes that were committed, so the $1 million that has been set aside to help Israeli women survivors is support for recovery, counselling, etc., and that is clearly identified.

There have also been allegations made of sexual and/or gender-based violence towards Palestinian women, not with as direct an attribution. The position of the minister on this is that when a woman comes forward and makes such allegations, we should believe the woman, first and foremost, and always investigate.

The money in the second announcement was to support these women, but of course allegations will need to be pursued and investigations will need to be made.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

So we have no idea who committed those crimes of sexual violence. Do we have any idea?

[Alexandre Lévêque]

There's no precision yet.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

That's helpful.

In terms of UNRWA, just to set the record straight, my understanding on the dates is Mr. Hussen announced that we would be pausing future funding to UNRWA on December 6 and more recently in March. But don't take my dates here.

Several weeks ago, if not months, Minister Hussen announced that we would pause future funding to UNRWA because of allegations of 12 employees who were involved in the October 7 attack.

More recently, in March, Minister Hussen unpaused the future installment.

I'm not asking about that specific issue but about the issue of our humanitarian aid to Gaza in this conflict, because I think there's a lack of clarity on that in Canada and for Canadians.

My understanding is we did pause future payments, but that payment was not due until a future date. In reality, to support humanitarian endeavours, we have increased funding and the funding for UNRWA was never cut, although we were going to do so if we did get down to the issue.

Is that correct?

[Alexandre Lévêque]

That's correct.

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

So we did increase—

[The Chair, Liberal, Ali Ehsassi]

Mr. Zuberi, you're over time. It's now four minutes and 30 seconds.

Thank you.

We next go to Madame Normandin.

You have four minutes.