Evidence of meeting #13 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was children.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Andrii Plakhotniuk
We could be talking about bilateral co-operation or trilateral co-operation. Whenever we can join forces to engage third countries, that would be great.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
What do you know, or what do your intelligence services know, about drones of unknown origin flying close to major European airports? Some say they definitely come from Russia, but do you have any additional evidence of that?
Andrii Plakhotniuk
What we are doing on a permanent basis, since the start of the full-scale invasion by Russia, is sharing our knowledge and data with our partners, so we have the information being shared on a daily basis in order for them to be prepared for any kind of development that they might face.
In this case, we've been supporting not only with information sharing but also with technical teams. We were talking about the drones that were spotted in Denmark's airspace. The president asked the armed forces to send personnel and specialists in order to, let's say, propose a number of responses for how to react to these kinds of situations.
This is work that is being conducted on a daily basis, because we want our partners to be prepared for any kind of situation.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Thank you.
We talked about children earlier, and many of us were moved by the discussion. These are war crimes, no less. Didn't the Russians intensify their sick strategy of kidnapping Ukrainian children to russify them?
Andrii Plakhotniuk
The Russians are trying to erase the identity of our kids. They're trying to destroy our future.
When we're talking about these programs and curricula in schools, we're talking about the process of Russification, where everything that connected and connects those young kids with Ukraine is erased from their memories. This is their policy—their deliberate policy. Certainly, they will continue to do that.
As long as our children are kept on their territory, they will do everything possible and impossible to make them Russian citizens with a Russian mentality, with a Russian mindset and with a clear desire to destroy everything that connects them to, and is about, Ukraine.
This is a really important and urgent task—to bring our kids back.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
In your opening statement, you thanked Canadian officials for imposing sanctions on specific individuals in leadership positions. Do you think the sanctions are working? You also talked about additional sanctions. Would you have any specific recommendations in that regard for the committee?
Andrii Plakhotniuk
Your first question was whether sanctions are working. Certainly, they aren't working, but we are talking about mid-term and long-term perspectives.
The Canadian government has always played a leader's role when it comes to sanctions, because we are talking about an autonomous or national sanctions regime. We're talking about 4,000 entities that are now under sanctions. The last and most recent package was very important, because it targeted major areas like the defence industry, the shadow fleet, drone production capabilities and other things. This is very important.
Certainly, we are aware that there are a number of issues that should be addressed properly, not only by the Canadian government and the Ukrainian government but by all the partners. One of them is how to avoid circumvention. Circumvention and sanctions require coordinated effort and strong coordination between the partners. We're talking about different jurisdictions, and we're talking about different legislation, regulations and traditions. That should be properly coordinated. In this sense, we see clear efforts by our partners, in particular by the Canadian government, to have these different rounds of consultations on how to make the sanctions policy more effective, to bring tangible and quicker results, let's say, for the benefit of Ukraine, and to make ourselves stronger.
About additional sanctions, if I may, I mentioned a couple of sectors in my presentation. One of them is certainly nuclear energy, and there are also defence production, the financial sector, and oil and the relevant industries.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ahmed Hussen
Thank you very much.
Next, we have MP Ziad Aboultaif.
You have five minutes.
Conservative
Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB
Your Excellency, welcome to Canada, and congratulations. I'd like you to know that Ukraine will continue to have our support, the strongest support from all sides of the politics in Canada. I have a beautiful community in my Edmonton Manning riding, so welcome again.
The news about Russia's interest in the youth population of Ukraine is not new. There was reporting at the very early stages after the invasion that suggested that. That's definitely worrisome for all of us. The question is, do you believe that the international pressure on Russia is enough to achieve at least the release of those 20,000 children before it's too late? We know that this is somehow going to permanently damage the lives of these children, their parents and everything connected to them.
We are very worried about that. I would like to hear from you. How do you assess the international efforts in bringing those children home?
Andrii Plakhotniuk
First, we are grateful for all international efforts from all partners to support Ukraine, but we cannot talk about how they are sufficient, because our kids are still in Russia. We can say that only when we have enough pressure, enough assistance and enough effort, and Putin is made to stop this war, withdraw his troops and pay reparations, with all those accountable being brought to justice.
What has been done is very important. We are genuinely grateful to all partners for all their assistance and solidarity, and to you, politicians everywhere, for supporting Ukrainian families here. It's very important. It's about the lives of people, but certainly there's not enough pressure on Russia.
Conservative
Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB
The question also is on how Canada's sanctions against Russia have been working. We trust that this is the case, because we want our efforts to show some results. If anyone knows Russia, I think it's the Ukrainians. Do you believe that something else can be done?
Can you suggest something for Canadian politicians about what can be done? For the Canadian government, what else can be done to make our pressure more effective and to get better results, so that we advance somehow in solving, if not the whole conflict and situation, at least part of it?
Andrii Plakhotniuk
For Ukraine and for myself as a representative of my present government, first and foremost is to have more support and solidarity from Canadian politicians. In this sense, absolutely a priority for me and for us is to have unity on the Ukrainian cause when it comes to different political parties here, represented in Parliament. Unity is number one.
Second is to be very vocal within different international fora when it comes to talking about Ukraine, raising awareness and drafting resolutions. Then, it's voting for them and implementing them.
Certainly, we are talking about sanctions. Certainly, we are talking about your active participation when it comes to the campaigns of advocacy for prisoners of war and the hostages who are captured.
A lot of things can be done, and you're really doing that. We're really grateful for that, but we should continue to do it every day in order to put more pressure on Russia.
Conservative
Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB
You mentioned the number of 20,000 children.
We thought, a few months ago, that there was an agreement on the children. About 1,800 were returned. Is that correct?
Andrii Plakhotniuk
It's according to the number of people...of kids who have returned. It's 1,821 only.
Conservative
Ziad Aboultaif Conservative Edmonton Manning, AB
That's less than 10% of the total.
Do you have any indication about the safety of the children?
Andrii Plakhotniuk
When we're talking about 20,000, it's an approximate number, because we don't have access to temporarily occupied territories. We cannot verify that this is the exact and final number. It's very important to mention that here.
When we're talking about our kids, we are more than concerned about their safety and about the conditions of their lives. It's a question about their health care and about all other things.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ahmed Hussen
Thank you very much.
Next, we'll go to MP Karim Bardeesy. You have five minutes.
Liberal
Karim Bardeesy Liberal Taiaiako'n—Parkdale—High Park, ON
Thank you, Your Excellency. Thank you for your strong engagement. Thank you for indicating how important it is that all parties here be very unified in support—I think you have this—and how important it is that this translates into international forums.
You made a number of statements in your opening around the kinds of additional support—resources and sanctions—that I want to stand behind and associate myself with as an MP with a significant Ukrainian Canadian and also Ukrainian community, with nationals who are in our part of Toronto as a result of the illegal war and occupation.
I also want to thank you for your engagement with the Ukrainian community at the recent Triennial Congress of Ukrainian Canadians.
With that preamble, I want to ask a couple of questions that are not associated directly with your remarks but I think are important to get some further information from you.
First, Canada's response to Russia's illegal invasion also involves support for Ukrainian nationals here in Canada, with a special visa and with other measures. Could you speak to what is needed right now to support those Ukrainian nationals who, because of this illegal war, are here in Canada?
Liberal
Karim Bardeesy Liberal Taiaiako'n—Parkdale—High Park, ON
Sorry, that's the first one. On support for Ukrainian nationals currently in Canada as a result of the war, what are you seeking from us?
Andrii Plakhotniuk
Certainly, we are profoundly grateful for all the support, assistance, programs and initiatives that are now implemented when it comes to Ukrainian nationals. We are talking about the number of 300,000. This is a huge number.
Everyone has issues that they're thinking about, like how to support their families and how to provide opportunities for their kids to study and to continue their studies. Everything that was done was really important. We are grateful for that.
When it comes to ways in which to support them, my mission as ambassador of Ukraine to Canada is to work—and the government is also working in Ukraine—to create conditions in the future, so that when security permits, with everything on the ground in terms of safety, they can return and participate in the reconstruction process. We will need each and every one, with all their new knowledge and expertise, to participate in reconstruction.
When that situation comes, we would really appreciate it if our people could continue with opportunities to study and work, with legal employment and building connections, and then they can bring this knowledge back to Ukraine.
We are certainly grateful for what has been done.
Liberal
Karim Bardeesy Liberal Taiaiako'n—Parkdale—High Park, ON
Thank you.
One of the influences that has helped the Russians in their cause has been their massive misinformation and disinformation apparatus, which I know does not just target North America. It's obviously targeted very specifically in Ukraine and eastern Europe. Could you share your latest sense of the Russian misinformation and disinformation operations and how Ukraine is seeking to counter those?
Andrii Plakhotniuk
First, we have been under constant attack by cyber-attack disinformation campaigns since long before this big war started. We're not talking about 2022; we're talking 2014 and previous years. We have been a constant target for their campaigns.
Certainly, we try to respond to these campaigns together with partners for their support—technical support and financial support. Now, what we see in the Russian budget for the next year is that they have increased the amount of money to be allocated for such kinds of campaigns. It means only one thing, that they will continue to work in each and every resource in order to disseminate propaganda and disinformation, with one very clear goal: to create chaos, to create a situation in which the countries are not united, and then to deal with each and every country using hybrid methods. This is a very important case.
Liberal
Karim Bardeesy Liberal Taiaiako'n—Parkdale—High Park, ON
Maybe I'll just give you an opportunity to get this on the record. The invasion and occupation of Crimea came before this most recent illegal invasion. Could you just reiterate your government's position on the occupation of Crimea?
Andrii Plakhotniuk
It started in 2014, with the occupation of Crimea and the occupation of certain areas in the Donetsk and Lugansk regions.