Foreign Affairs Committee on Sept. 23rd, 2025

[The Chair, Liberal, Ahmed Hussen]

Good morning, everyone. I call this meeting to order. Welcome to meeting number two of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the Standing Orders. Members are attending in person in the room and remotely using the Zoom application. Before we continue, I'd like to ask all in-person participants to consult the guidelines written on the cards on the table. These measures are in place to help prevent audio feedback incidents, and to protect the health and safety of all participants, including the interpreters. You'll also notice a QR code on the card that links to a short awareness video.

I'd also like to make a few comments for the benefit of the witnesses and members. Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. For those participating by video conference, click on the microphone icon to activate your mic, and please mute yourself when you're not speaking. For those on Zoom, at the bottom of your screen, you can select the appropriate channel for interpretation: either floor, English or French audio. For those in the room, you can use the earpiece and select the desired channel.

I remind you that all comments should be addressed through the chair. For members in the room, if you wish to speak, please raise your hand. For members on Zoom, please use the “raise hand” function. The clerk and I will manage the speaking order as best we can, and we appreciate your patience and understanding in this regard.

Before hearing from today's witnesses, the committee must first address an important matter concerning its own business. Your subcommittee met on Thursday, September 18, to consider the business of the committee, and agreed to make various recommendations. The clerk distributed yesterday the subcommittee report with a proposed calendar for the next few weeks, until December.

Are there any comments on the report and the calendar? If not, does the committee approve the report?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ahmed Hussen]

Thank you.

We have Ms. Fortier.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier—Gloucester, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, for opening this meeting.

I'd like to say hello to my colleagues. We are starting our parliamentary work, and I am very happy that everyone is here today.

In two of the motions presented by Mr. Alexis Brunelle‑Duceppe, I would like to add a friendly amendment requesting that, pursuant to Standing Order 109, the committee request that the government table a comprehensive response to the report.

I would simply like this amendment to be included in the motion on Canada's strategy for Africa and in the motion on the crisis in Haiti, to ensure that a response is tabled by the government.

The report is very good. I just wanted to propose a friendly amendment today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ahmed Hussen]

Thank you, Madame Fortier.

Is there agreement on that comment?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ahmed Hussen]

Okay, we'll move to approval now. The clerk will follow up with members after today's meeting to solicit their witnesses for each study. The deadline to submit witnesses for the study on the Canadian Arctic strategy is this Friday. Please get your witnesses' names in before then. Deadlines for the other studies will be specified in the clerk's upcoming email.

On a side note, I'd also like to inform the committee that we've received an invitation from the Embassy of Finland in Ottawa for an informal meeting with the foreign affairs committee of the Finnish parliament, which will be visiting Ottawa on November 17 and 18. As discussed with the vice-chairs and MP Mona Fortier, an informal meeting will be planned with our Finnish counterparts on Tuesday, November 17, from 9:30 a.m. to 11 a.m., and of course the clerk will follow up by email in due time with more information on this.

Please note that our committee has also received some additional invitations. There was one on Monday from the World Food Programme deputy executive director, Carl Skau, for a September 29 meeting. The president of the International Committee of the Red Cross will also be here on Friday, October 24.

I'd now like to welcome our witnesses, who are here to discuss the situation in Haiti and Canada's response. From the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development, we have Mark Richardson, director general, Central America and Caribbean bureau; and Ian Myles, executive director, Haiti division.

Up to five minutes will be given for opening remarks to each of you, after which we will proceed with rounds of questions. I now invite you to make an opening statement of up to five minutes. Please proceed.

[Mark Richardson, Director General, Central America and Caribbean Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

Good morning. My name is Mark Richardson, and I am the director general of the Central America and Caribbean bureau at Global Affairs Canada. As the chair said, I'm joined by my colleague Ian Myles, the executive director of the Haiti division.

Today, I will provide an overview of the situation in Haiti as well as Canada’s response.

The situation in Haiti is dire. Since the assassination of President Moïse in 2021, the country has plunged into a deep and multi-faceted crisis. It is now at a critical point as gang violence and chaos continue to escalate.

Despite the courageous efforts of the Haitian National Police and the Kenya-led Multinational Security Support Mission, or MSSM, gangs now control over 90% of the capital and are expanding their hold to other parts of the country.

The gangs are exceptionally well funded and equipped through kidnapping, extortion and drug and weapons trafficking. They have become increasingly brutal. They recruit children and use sexual violence, massacres and intimidation to assert control. More than 8,700 people have been killed since 2024 alone.

The political situation is similarly challenging. The mandate of the transitional presidential council, established in April 2024, is set to expire in February. It is increasingly unlikely that credible elections will be held before then.

Haitian citizens are bearing the brunt of this crisis. Over half of the population urgently needs humanitarian assistance, and over 1.3 million are internally displaced by the violence.

The crisis also has impacts beyond Haiti, including for Canada's own national interests and those of Haiti's neighbours. Haiti's instability creates ideal conditions for transnational crime to thrive. Illicit flows of money, drugs and weapons are expanding, and Haitian gangs are building ties to criminal networks in the region and even in Canada. Desperate conditions are driving irregular migration as Haitians seek safety and opportunity elsewhere, and the extremely high-risk business environment is hindering economic recovery.

Canada's response to the crisis has been comprehensive and supported by multiple departments and agencies. Since 2022 we've invested over $450 million towards peace and security, humanitarian and development initiatives. On the security front, both the Canadian Armed Forces and the RCMP have played important roles in delivering equipment, initiatives, training and logistical support for the MSSM and the Haitian National Police. Despite the challenging operational environment, dedicated Canadian and international organizations continue to work hard to alleviate suffering, provide basic services and fight corruption and human rights abuses. Among other things, for example, Canadian international assistance helped deliver daily hot meals to over 100,000 schoolchildren last year.

As we approach the expiry date of the MSSM's mandate on October 2, the international community is at a crossroads and must chart a new path forward. To this effect, the U.S. and Panama recently tabled a UN Security Council resolution that would replace the MSSM with an expanded international force supported by a robust UN support office. The goal is to better leverage the UN's unique expertise in operational capacity to help stabilize Haiti.

Canada is currently engaging in intensive diplomatic advocacy to support the resolution. For example, later this afternoon the honourable Minister of Foreign Affairs, Minister Anand, will co-chair a high-level meeting on Haiti at the UN General Assembly to further galvanize international support.

I will now switch to French.

While building stability remains the immediate priority, Canada continues to work with its Haitian and international partners to address the root causes of the recurring crises in Haiti. This includes fighting corruption, as well as efforts to strengthen and reform the economy, the justice system and the security sector.

I want to thank the committee members for their attention and commitment to this important and ever-evolving issue.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ahmed Hussen]

Thank you very much for your remarks, Mr. Richardson.

We'll now proceed to questions, starting with MP Ziad Aboultaif.

Welcome.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Thank you, Chair, and thank you to the witnesses for appearing today.

Obviously, the situation on all fronts.... There is nothing good to report about Haiti at any level—security, humanitarian or the state of the nation itself as a failed nation, as we learned.

We are talking about the situation but not mentioning why this is happening.

Who is the beneficiary? Who is feeding these gang groups? What is the political side of this that is really causing the international community to stand now and think about sending in international troops through the United Nations to sort of either settle the situation or at least ease a bit the pressure that is on the people and the international community at large?

The political question is this: Who is behind these gangs? Who is backing these gangs and who is the beneficiary?

[Mark Richardson]

Mr. Chair, I think that's an excellent question that the member has asked, in terms of who is benefiting.

What we do know is that the gangs themselves are obviously benefiting and that certain members of the Haitian elite have also been benefiting. For that reason, we have put in place autonomous sanctions against 34 individuals—that is the most of any member or any country around the world—which are having a positive impact.

Perhaps I'll turn to my colleague, Ian, who may be able to provide additional details.

[Ian Myles, Executive Director, Haiti Division, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development]

Thank you very much. I hope you can hear me through the mask. I'm afraid I came down with a cold, and I don't want to share it.

Mr. Chair, the situation in Haiti has been complex since the country got its independence in 1804. Without going too much into history, it's been the history of a very small elite controlling economic and political power. That's been true to the present day.

The origins of the gangs are mostly in terms of armed thugs, essentially, who were put in place by those same elites, initially to compete with each other over control of territory, control of markets and control of regions. To put it simply, the gangs themselves realized at some point that they were the ones who had the guns. With the political turmoil with the assassination of the president and the subsequent turmoil, there was a political vacuum, and the gangs took advantage of that.

The status quo primarily benefits those gangs right now. I think the political and economic elite feel very vulnerable right now because of this situation. The gangs are becoming quite wealthy because of the extortion opportunities, the drug-trafficking opportunities and the arms-trafficking opportunities. The status quo right now is just very profitable for them.

Thank you.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Thanks.

On the micro part of it, you've answered the question. The macro part of it is beyond the local players or the domestic players.

Now the United States and Panama are proposing to have United Nations troops. Canada is doing some diplomatic work to determine whether this will have consent or disagreement among the international community.

Is there any outside government that is backing these groups, that we know of?

Are we sure that forming the mission with troops and peacekeepers, in a way, is going to really go smoothly and is going to happen?

[Mark Richardson]

Mr. Chair, we are not aware at this time of any state-sponsored support for the gangs. Obviously, transnational crime has woven its own networks across the region, and that is being played out in Haiti.

In terms of any state-sponsored support, we are unaware of that at this time.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Thank you.

Canada has sent close to half a billion dollars—$460 million or $480 million. The last tranche is to enhance the security and to support the security mission to keep things under the MSSM under control.

How much further is Canada willing to go in supporting a future mission, if this is to happen? Has Canada talked about any commitment to that?

Do we have anything in mind for what Canada's commitment will be if the UN troops are going to be in place? Are we considering sending any or participating with troops physically on the ground?

[Mark Richardson]

Mr. Chair, while I can't speculate in terms of what Canada's future engagement might be, I can say that currently we are working very hard to help support the passage of the resolution that the United States and Panama have passed. To date, the more than $450 million that we've provided in international assistance has been focused predominantly on security, humanitarian and development needs. That's since 2022. We provided roughly $140 million in 2022 and approximately $170 million in 2023. Although the data from our CFO is still coming in, the 2024-25 numbers are around $150 million, from what we understand.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ahmed Hussen]

Thank you very much, Mr. Aboultaif.

We will move to the next questioner.

Mr. Blair, you have six minutes.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Welcome to our guests from Global Affairs.

You have one of the most challenging tasks. I think there's a long and proud history of Canada's contribution and involvement in the support of the Haitian people and in the response to both their security and their humanitarian requirements, but it remains a very significant challenge.

My area of inquiry this morning will basically centre on three areas.

Mr. Richardson, you just spoke about the fairly significant financial commitment Canada has made to both security and financial assistance for Haiti—some $450 million over the past three years. I would like some understanding, because I think there are many countries that have been contributing—none, quite frankly, to the extent that Canada does in many respects—but at the same time, there is a level of coordination you are able to provide.

We are concerned with civil society in Haiti. It does not really possess a functional government, and although the PNH struggles valiantly in an effort to maintain security, it remains a daunting task. As you've indicated, 90% of Port-au-Prince, for example, is under the control of the gangs.

Could you share with us, perhaps, a little about the effort you're making to make sure that, with our financial contributions, both humanitarian and security, there is some level of coordination with others who are contributing and with Haitian partners, if they do exist, in Haiti?

[Mark Richardson]

Mr. Chair, thank you to the member for recognizing how challenging the task in front of us is with Haiti, because it is indeed incredibly complex and challenging.

In terms of coordination with other countries and other donors, we've been leveraging our presidency of the G7 in order to try to coordinate efforts under that remit. We actively work with the OAS and obviously within the UN construct as well.

On the ground, we have also traditionally played a leadership role in the last number of years, particularly in terms of helping to coordinate assistance on the security front.

At this point, I'll turn to my colleague, Ian, to perhaps give some more details on that.

[Ian Myles]

Thank you very much.

The coordination efforts have actually gone better than I expected in the sense that there are not that many actors involved in Haiti, and that's one of the challenges. The lion's share of the support on the security side is coming from the U.S. and from Canada, to a lesser extent from France, increasingly from the Organization of American States, and of course from the UN.

The current international security force is led by Kenya. It's about 1,000 individuals, primarily police. They're endorsed by the UN Security Council, but it's not UN-led, which means that both the troops and the funds to cover their costs are through voluntary contributions. There are some key players in that. The primary contributing country is Kenya; it's about three-quarters of that force. There are also significant contributions, or at least important symbolic contributions, from countries like Guatemala, El Salvador, Jamaica and the Bahamas.

In terms of the MSSM itself, the multinational security support mission, there's coordination internal to that. We're also working at the OAS and at the UN to try to ensure that that continues.

Canada played a coordination role in the country itself, particularly to ensure coordination between the support going to the Haitian National Police and the support going to the multinational force, trying to ensure interoperability of the equipment—things like radio, ammunition, weapons, etc. We play the key bridging role there. There's a very good direct line, but the HNP in particular is quite weak as an organization. I think they struggle to play that convening role.

[Bill Blair, Liberal, Scarborough Southwest, ON]

Thank you very much.

I'm aware that the Canadian Armed Forces has contributed through Operation Helios in the training of the MSS contingent from Kenya. As well, the RCMP has been very much involved in providing training in Jamaica to the PNH. At the same time, with the proposal for this gang suppression initiative that the United States is now bringing forward, the MSS has been chronically understaffed and underfunded since its inception.

I don't disagree, by the way. My sense is that it's because it is a voluntary contribution rather than a chapter VII UN resolution that might have made it a UN mission.

Is it anticipated, with what the United States is proposing for a gang suppression initiative, that it would become something that would be funded through the UN instead of just a voluntary contribution?

[Mark Richardson]

What the resolution has proposed is actually a hybrid approach whereby the successor to the MSSM would be the gang suppression force, which would rely on voluntary contributions, as the MSSM has done so far in terms of personnel, equipment and stipends to cover the costs of the personnel. It would be further supported, as proposed in the draft resolution that we've seen, by a UN support office, which would be funded through assessed contributions, meaning that it would have financial stability in order to help with procurement, transport and a variety of other costs.

As I understand it, one of the main constraints on the success and the ability to galvanize or attract contributions from other members has been the lack of logistical support and instability there. As proposed now, the resolution would seek to address those main challenges.

[The Chair, Liberal, Ahmed Hussen]

Thank you very much.

We will now proceed to Mr. Brunelle-Duceppe.

You have six minutes.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Richardson and Mr. Myles, for being with us today. We greatly appreciate it.

As my friend Bill Blair said, the situation in Haiti is complicated yet urgent.

On Tuesday, September 16, the Trump administration urged Canada to play a greater role in stabilizing Haiti. Ms. Anand's response was that it was premature to talk about sending Canadian soldiers there. She also said that she was continuing discussions in New York, on the margins of the United Nations General Assembly.

Do you know if your department or another department has developed a strategy for sending Canadian soldiers to Haiti?

[Mark Richardson]

Thank you for your question.

What I can confirm is that, in terms of the resolution, we need to do our best to support the Americans and the Panamanians. That's really what we're trying to do.

It's still too early to comment on what happens in the future. Right now, our efforts are focused on the resolution.