Evidence of meeting #25 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was regime.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
No, in English, but you have to turn on your microphone when you speak.
Liberal
Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON
I can do it in French as well, but I prefer to do it in English.
What did I ask? It was just about the 2,000 people a day who are not returning. That was it.
The second question, for Mr. Savage, is on the role of the OAS in this. Venezuela has had, I believe, a suspended position within the OAS of late. Has the OAS made proclamations about Venezuela since January? Is there any change in the positions? What is Canada's position at the OAS vis-à-vis Venezuela?
Stuart Savage Ambassador, Permanent Representative of Canada to the Organization of American States, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
The OAS, as the hemisphere's main political forum, has taken the issue of Venezuela seriously and continues to follow it with great interest. In the OAS, Canada attempts to play a leading role to ensure that the situation in Venezuela remains on the agenda, and we've has been quite successful in that regard.
Over the last year or so, since the last elections in Venezuela—which were, as my colleague Madame Drukier said, not recognized for being fully free and fair in 2024—the OAS has had nine separate discussions on Venezuela in different ways, shapes and forms, including in August of that year, 2024.
The OAS was the only international organization able to come together on a consensual document calling for restraint and the publication of election results, in respect for the popular will of the Venezuelan people in the face of what was apparently happening in Venezuela at the time and the Maduro regime's effectively stealing those elections. Since then, there have been a number of other topics. I could go through them if you'd like, but it certainly has remained on the agenda. Most recently, we discussed Venezuela at the OAS on January 21. That was about the situation of political prisoners in Venezuela. I'm happy to expand if you want more information.
Liberal
Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON
That's fine. I will go on with respect to the possible normalization of diplomatic relations and whether there's a process in mind for that.
Right now, we do not have an embassy open. We have a skeletal staff apparently working out of another country's mission. Is there any plan on reopening an embassy or establishing a normalized relationship?
Director General, South America and Hemispheric Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
It is true that we have a small number of locally engaged staff on the ground in Caracas. Canada hasn't had any diplomats in the country since 2019. We did not formally close the embassy, but we were not able to send anyone in because Venezuelan authorities would not grant visas to Canadian diplomats. This is a situation that we will continue to examine under the change in circumstances.
Most, if not all, large, like-minded countries now have a diplomatic presence and have continued to have a diplomatic presence on the ground. In Venezuela, the U.S. has re-established a diplomatic presence. As the Government of Canada, we are looking at the conditions that may allow Canadian diplomats to return there.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ahmed Hussen
Thank you very much.
Next we'll go to MP Brunelle-Duceppe.
You have six minutes, Mr. Brunelle‑Duceppe.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I just have a quick question, following on from what was said a moment ago by the Conservatives.
Ms. Drukier, you say that you have no opinion as to whether international law has been violated or not. Are there people trained in international law at the Department of Foreign Affairs?
Director General, South America and Hemispheric Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Yes, we have the International Law Bureau at the department.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
When something like this happens, do you consult these people?
Director General, South America and Hemispheric Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Yes, of course, if necessary.
Bloc
Director General, South America and Hemispheric Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Yes.
Director General, South America and Hemispheric Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
The responses were provided in the form of advice to the minister. I am not in a position to discuss the advice that was given to the minister.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
What you are saying is that you are not aware of what was said to the minister.
Director General, South America and Hemispheric Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
I am not a lawyer and I have no training in international law.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
In fact, my question is not directed at you, but rather concerns the department’s expertise. You tell me that people trained in international law assess whether or not international law has been violated in certain situations and that advice is given to the minister. You, who are responsible for South America and Hemispheric Affairs, were not aware of the advice given to the minister in this specific situation.
Director General, South America and Hemispheric Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
I was aware of it, but I am not at liberty to share those views, as they were advice given to the minister.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Even though it is within your own department, you are unable to provide us with the department’s findings. Is that correct?
Director General, South America and Hemispheric Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
This was advice given to the minister, so it is not my role to disclose it.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Could the ambassador tell us whether it is his role to inform us of the advice given to the minister? Is this really a state secret? Do we need to submit a freedom of information request to obtain the response from Foreign Affairs staff who are advising the minister—advice that, as I understand it, cannot be made public?
Ambassador, Permanent Representative of Canada to the Organization of American States, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
The question is clearly intended to get at some information that, as my colleague said, gets into the realm of ministerial privilege. As public servants, we are here to advise and support our ministers. We are not at liberty to express or share the advice provided to ministers in their decision-making processes.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
That’s fine, thank you very much.
However, you say that the minister could tell us whether the advice she was given leaned one way or the other. In that case, we could ask the minister directly if she would be willing to speak publicly.
Ms. Drukier, could you tell us whether the economic situation has improved since the exfiltration of former President Maduro?
Director General, South America and Hemispheric Affairs, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
This is a difficult question to answer, as we do not have much information on the situation. We know that, under the agreement between the United States and the Venezuelan regime, a portion of the revenue from oil sales is returned to the country to meet essential needs such as education and health care. We understand that the economic situation has improved somewhat, but we have no quantifiable data as to the extent of this improvement.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
Very well. Thank you.
Ambassador, within the Organization of American States itself, is there a consensus on how to assess the situation that prevailed when former President Maduro was exfiltrated? Do all countries agree that this was a good thing or a bad thing, or are they somewhat divided on the issue?