Evidence of meeting #41 for Foreign Affairs and International Development in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was work.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ahmed Hussen
If you have concerns about the bill and whether or not it's strong enough, that's for the committee—
Conservative
Jacob Mantle Conservative York—Durham, ON
I'm engaging with the comments the minister made to the committee this afternoon.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ahmed Hussen
—the official has made it very clear that he's not the official responsible for—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ahmed Hussen
I was in the middle of a sentence. I didn't finish what I was saying.
The official has made it very clear that he's not the person responsible for this particular issue.
I'm just trying to move things along and—
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
On a point of order, Mr. Chair.
You're telling me that the minister isn't here. However, you're also telling me that it will be the same group of witnesses. I haven't had my six-minute speaking time.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ahmed Hussen
I didn't finish my sentence.
I said that the minister is not here, and the official has made it clear that he's not the official responsible for this line of questioning.
Bloc
Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe Bloc Lac-Saint-Jean, QC
I am continuing with the same point of order, Mr. Chair.
If the minister was officially part of the same panel of witnesses as the officials, then my Conservative colleague is entitled to ask questions, as this was stated whilst that same panel of witnesses was present.
If you decide that this is a new panel of witnesses, it would be my turn to speak, but this is the same panel. As the minister has made some comments on this matter, I believe my colleague is entitled to ask questions. Otherwise, please give me the floor for six minutes and we will resume the question-and-answer session with the panel of witnesses.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ahmed Hussen
That's why, in the beginning, I allowed the first question. The official then made it clear, on the record, that he is not the official responsible for this issue.
Mr. Chong.
Conservative
Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills North, ON
I want to speak to the issue of relevance, because this is the second point of order on it.
I take your point about the witness not being the individual responsible for the subject matter at hand.
Generally, members of committees do not have specific rules governing the nature of the questions they can put to witnesses, other than the general requirement of relevance. Clearly, this line of questioning is relevant. In fact, the minister herself, in her opening remarks, talked about the forced labour bill with respect to the estimates. That's why she was here.
I think it's entirely in order for a member of this committee to ask questions of witnesses about this. They may not be able to answer them, but I think this is entirely relevant.
Liberal
Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON
I would ask about the relevance related to this.
The topic of our meeting is “Subject Matter of Main Estimates 2026-27: Votes 1, 5, 10, 15 and 20 under Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development, Vote 1 under International Development Research Centre, and Vote 1 under International Joint Commission”.
This legislation was introduced at first reading. It has nothing to do with these particular main estimates. It will be very appropriate to discuss them when we do the main or supplementary estimates related to these. I know chairs—I have been the chair of a committee—have given leeway on lines of questioning. However, I think it is an abuse of our committee's time to spend time on something that we will have a responsibility to deal with if the House decides to pass it at second reading. If and when they refer it to this committee, we'll have a lot of time.
With respect to the list, there is no list. The reality is that we have not voted at second reading even to continue the legislation. How can there be a phantom list at this point, when the legislation is not passed?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Ahmed Hussen
I am of the opinion that I've given you leeway, Mr. Mantle. I hope you bring this to a close, because, again, even if I were to allow you to continue this line of questioning, the official has made it clear that he's not the point person on this particular issue.
I'm trying to understand the line of questioning and the relevance.
Conservative
Jacob Mantle Conservative York—Durham, ON
I'd like to speak on the same thing, in response to your and Mr. Oliphant's comments.
I'm concerned that there's now reference to a phantom list. I would expect that after five years of enforcing this, there would be a list or some understanding of a list. I'm not asking them to give me every bullet point. I'm asking them about what they know about this, as officials. I think it's very relevant to ask this of the officials, who are here to assist the minister in responding to the committee's questions. The minister discussed this at length.
How is that not relevant, Mr. Chair?
Conservative
Conservative
Jacob Mantle Conservative York—Durham, ON
If the official does not know, then he or she is free to say so. I am free to ask for more information.
You will be aware that U.S. Customs and Border Protection publishes the UFLPA list, which is a list of designated entities under that U.S. law. As well, they publicly issue press releases about withhold release orders for the blocking of importation of goods that are suspected to be produced by forced labour.
Does the Department of Foreign Affairs do the same?
Director General, Trade Strategy Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
Canada has forced labour legislation on the books, and a new piece of legislation has been tabled, which includes a proposal to publish a list.
Conservative
Jacob Mantle Conservative York—Durham, ON
That's the list, yes, but does your ministry or the government currently provide any data with respect to importations into Canada that have been blocked or detained for forced labour?
Director General, Trade Strategy Bureau, Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development
I'm not aware of Global Affairs Canada's publishing any of that data. Enforcement of Canada's forced labour import prohibition rests with CBSA.
Conservative
Jacob Mantle Conservative York—Durham, ON
Thanks.
I wanted to ask your officials, because the CBSA, of course, does not publish any of that data, so I was wondering if other government departments do.
Just today, U.S. Customs and Border Protection issued a withhold release on a Serbian copper mine owned by a Chinese entity on its suspected use of forced labour at that mine. Public reporting says that those copper products are imported into Canada.
Can you confirm for us today whether copper products produced by forced labour from this mine in Serbia are in the Canadian market?