Government Operations Committee on Feb. 22nd, 2007

[Gérald Cossette]

The second challenge is how the information itself is indexed. The way in which the data is recorded differs from one jurisdiction to another. To give you an example, Quebec has two birth certificates: one for people born in Quebec and one for people born outside Quebec, even though Quebec is the one issuing both types of birth certificates. The other provinces only have one type.

The third difficulty involves technological exchanges, the technological infrastructure itself. What we have to decide is whether the technology network will be a central data bank, a big brother, perhaps. And that raises all sorts of political and other questions. Or will it be just a computer network allowing for the exchange of data but enabling each province to preserve its own data? That is the discussion—

[Louise Thibault, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

That was one of the comments that Ms. Fraser made in her report. How long have you been working to try to find a solution with your 13 partners? How long have you been discussing this?

[Gérald Cossette]

Can you answer that question, Gary?

[Gary McDonald]

We have been working on this for several years, since the beginning of 2002. After September 11, 2001, the then Minister of Foreign Affairs contacted all his provincial counterparts and discussions got underway on identity. That is really our concern: How do we identify Canadians? And the way to share information was—

[Louise Thibault, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

If I understand correctly, you are sharing information. Of course, when you mention big brother, everyone becomes paranoid right away. You know that the respective jurisdictions of the territories and provinces are something that I hold sacrosanct.

Over the past five years, have you had a working group looking into this?

[Gary McDonald]

Yes.

[Louise Thibault, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Could you come back in six months or a year and tell us where you are at with this question? I am thinking that it would probably be possible to do some positive and beneficial things. I'm speaking in the first person, as always, because I would be happy to do that, within the limits of my role and my knowledge.

I would like you to get in contact with the clerk at some point so that we could organize a meeting and you could update us on your progress. I have no doubt that you will improve things. Of course, I am quite critical because we have a crisis on our hands; you know that as well as I do. I had no intention of criticizing your whole organization; far from it. I mentioned the Montreal and Quebec City offices to you, which have excellent staff.

On another point, a number of colleagues have raised the problem of communication. People arrive at 2:00 a.m. or at 4:00 a.m. to be near the front of the line at 9:00 a.m. That is too bad, really, because some of those people do not need their passport until July. Ms. Thomas said that it was probably paranoia.

What measures have you taken to communicate with the public? When you found out that there would be problems, what communication plan did you develop to try to eliminate that paranoia?

[Gérald Cossette]

Regarding the American initiative, the information on when exactly it would come into force was quite unclear. The question of the deadline caused difficulties. I am prepared to admit that we have not communicated as well as we might have. We are using the Internet site as effectively as we can.

[Louise Thibault, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

I will just tell you how I see this, deep down. There are 308 members' offices, so 308 people—minus one, since there has been a resignation—that you could enlist to help you. We organize press conferences, we talk to local newspapers and we meet with people. The people who work in our offices are by definition a way for you to communicate. You have apologized, and I thank you for that. It is a good thing when people are able to acknowledge that it will be possible to do better next time.

Some members have regional ridings. My colleague, for example, is fortunate that he is right beside the passport office. When it comes down to it, 100 or 150 MPs naturally act as agents for you in a way. I am sure that they are generally pleased to help.

For us, however, dealing with these people involves costs. Those are costs that you do not have to assume, since you do not see these people in your offices. I would bet that when those passport envelopes arrive in your offices by express courier—a service that is costing me four times as much every week as it did a few months ago, by the way—you generally find that the application has been filled out properly. I am sure that this applies to all my colleagues. After all, we do not want people in our riding telling us that their photos were not acceptable or that the signature was not in its proper little box. I invite you to take advantage of the fact that we are here to serve our constituents. That would be enough to reassure me a great deal.

[Gérald Cossette]

Madam Chair, I must say, to be honest, that our dealings with members' offices have not really been a success. We organized two seminars, including one specifically on the American initiative. It was on December 5^th, and I was there. I think that there were about 16 people there.

[Louise Thibault, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

In Ottawa, or in Quebec City?

[Gérald Cossette]

Here in Ottawa.

[Louise Thibault, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

That is the problem, sir. My staff are in Rimouski. I would not bring three assistants here.

[Gérald Cossette]

In fact, our new strategy is to take our information sessions on the road. Beginning April 1^st, we will be holding clinics in the ridings with the most applications. Not all MPs provide the services, but for those who do, we will be providing them with better support.

The same is true for remote regions in the north, where applications might even be processed on-site at the clinic, so that people do not have to travel.

We are looking at all the options, though they may be few in number, to make it easier to provide good service. I think that we are now prepared to offer what I call an asymmetric service, which means that infrastructure is good, but if we cannot offer the service, there may be other ways to do it. We need to go where people are and try to provide them with the best possible service.

[Louise Thibault, Bloc, Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC]

Please put my name back on your list.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Mr. Bevington, you wanted to say a few words?

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Back to the mail service: Is there any potential you could open a regional mail site, say in Edmonton, which would provide much better service in the western region?

[Jody Thomas]

We're looking into a number of strategies for mail service within the next three weeks. We have a facility in Mississauga. I know it doesn't resolve the northern issue, but at least it will be another site we can rapidly staff to take some of the overflow. That will be happening in the next two to three weeks.

We're examining a number of strategies to resolve the mail problem because geographically it's evident: we're always going to have people where we don't have offices. We're studying a couple of options, but one of the most prominent is that we know we have surges at certain times of the year because Canadians like to travel when it's cold. Canada Revenue Agency is a model to follow, in that they have surges every year at income tax time and they have seasonal employees they hire year after year to work for them. Generally, it's data entry, but I think we could follow a model like that to hire seasonal employees, in places where seasonal employment is potentially a known entity, and maintain that facility and the cost of the facility throughout the year, but only staff it for the six to seven months of the year when we need it. That's not an immediate fix; it has to be studied and costed and we have to find the space. But I think it has to be the way we go.

Generally, through the summer our volume can be in the negative, so we're carrying cost and people we can't really afford for the five or six months of the year where we have huge volumes. The disparity between the troughs in the volume and the peaks in the volume is enormous, but we can't staff and prepare for the average any longer. We're certainly aware of that, and we understand it's too late for this fiscal year and for this current problem, but we have another wave coming and we hope to be ready to use these kinds of strategies for the second phase of WHTI. Certainly I think we have to look at seasonal employees and employment that have been successful models for other agencies. Where it will be I couldn't answer right now, but we want to do that and are studying it actively and working with partners. I think this is a good approach.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

Would there be any sense you could use municipal offices to create a time when a Passport Canada official could come to town, and if a municipal office could get you enough clients to make it worth your while, that you could bring somebody into a small community and get the passports done in one fell swoop?

[Jody Thomas]

We're looking at northern fly-in squads as a strategy during our low season over the summer to use some of these employees we have on staff to be able to give service to northern and remote areas.

[Dennis Bevington, NDP, Western Arctic, NT]

I think that would be excellent.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Are there any other questions?

Thank you. I thank you for coming.

As you know, this is a subject that is dear to my heart. I am eager to see the changes. I have been promised several times that there would be changes, but I have not seen any.

In my riding, I tell people not to buy tickets for their trip until they have their passport, because they can lose their money. I do not want to see that happen. However, even after telling them that, there are some people who think that they already have a passport and then they look for it and realize that they don't have one.

There are other times when people travel a lot and they need their papers to travel. When you have to send it through your MP, and it takes at least 30 to 40 working days--it was taking even longer than that for a while--it's very difficult for these people because they need the documents. So I hope you can do renewals more quickly and find a way. I can tell you that the people from northeastern Ontario, and I speak for most of them up there, would tell you you've got to find a way to help a lot of these communities. These are not rural and remote communities.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

Not Sudbury.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

No, there's nothing.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

It's a big place.