Government Operations Committee on March 22nd, 2007

[Maria Barrados]

My biggest preoccupation is that we actually wait and let the markets tell us. We have this fairly stable workforce. They tend to come in, spend their careers, and they leave. We know their pattern of movement. So why do we wait until they're out the door to start bringing in people? It may mean some greater investment in bringing some groups in a little more. That's the kind of thing we have to do; we don't wait until you have the situation you're describing.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

Thank you.

I think Mr. Epp has some questions. Do we have time?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

Yes.

[Ken Epp, Conservative, Edmonton—Sherwood Park, AB]

Thank you very much.

I also appreciate you being here.

I would like to ask a few questions.

Do you have a website?

[Maria Barrados]

Yes.

[Ken Epp, Conservative, Edmonton—Sherwood Park, AB]

Can people apply online if they want a job?

[Maria Barrados]

Yes.

[Ken Epp, Conservative, Edmonton—Sherwood Park, AB]

How does that work? Let's say I'm a supervisor at Revenue Canada and I need some workers. Do I have to write the specifications, send them to you, and you post them on your website? Is that how that works?

[Maria Barrados]

Revenue Canada is not a good example. They're a separate employer.

[Ken Epp, Conservative, Edmonton—Sherwood Park, AB]

That's the one we love the most, I guess.

[Maria Barrados]

Yes, but pick another department.

The new Public Service Employment Act has only one requirement, centrally, and that is that you post it on the jobs.gc.ca website. There is one website where all the jobs are posted.

Everything else is up to the departments. If they want the Public Service Commission to help them, we can. If they want to do it themselves, they can do it themselves. The system now has that discretion.

[Ken Epp, Conservative, Edmonton—Sherwood Park, AB]

So if you were to receive applications, you would forward them to that department and they would do the initial screening and interviewing.

[Maria Barrados]

That's right. If they want us to do it for them, we can do it for them, or we can do it with them.

[Ken Epp, Conservative, Edmonton—Sherwood Park, AB]

I have another question, which is quite unrelated. If I want to know how many employees there are in Canada, by department, is there a website where I can find that information? Do you have that information available?

[Maria Barrados]

I certainly have the information and we can give you that. We can break down the numbers by department. We can provide the numbers I've given you in annex 1 by department.

[Ken Epp, Conservative, Edmonton—Sherwood Park, AB]

Is that the end of my time, Mr. Chairman?

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

Yes.

Go ahead, Mr. Simard.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have one quick question.

When the Auditor General was before another committee of ours some time ago she was saying that one of her biggest challenges was the private sector raiding her auditors and paying them substantial salaries. They're in high demand right now. I'm wondering if you have that issue with your specialists.

Secondly, how do you set your salary structure at that level? Do you look at the private sector and increase accordingly when that kind of thing happens?

[Maria Barrados]

I worked at the Auditor General's for 18 years, and I'm quite familiar with some of the challenges the Auditor General has.

We at the Public Service Commission are not responsible for setting salaries. The salaries are set by the Treasury Board. They do have processes in place where they benchmark against the private sector. In general, the salaries are pretty competitive, particularly for the more junior salaries. The more senior salaries are not, but you're not seeing that mobility between senior people in the public sector and the private sector.

The government does make adjustments when they feel there is an issue. I remember the high-tech flurry when there was a shortage of computer specialists. There were extra incentives put into salaries to get people. We in government do not have the flexibility that the private sector has to boost up some of the salaries. That's just not there.

I know the Auditor General is having trouble staffing the accountants because there's a shortage now, but I remember not that long ago when we didn't have that kind of problem.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Daryl Kramp]

We'll have Mr. Poilievre.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

I note in the statistics provided to us by Statistics Canada that 34% of current core public service employees--34%--are over the age of 50. Given that you said retirement can come as early as 55 in the existing pension structure, does that not cause you some concern?

[Maria Barrados]

I'm only concerned if there's no effort to address it. When you look at the feeder groups--we have a lot of feeder groups--the question is whether we are doing enough training and development to have people ready to take on those jobs. Whenever we run a competition for some of those executive jobs, we have lots of applications. There's not a lack of interest.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Nepean—Carleton, ON]

From 2005 through 2013 the increase in retirement will be 65%. It's going to go from 3,500 to 5,600. That's a rather large increase, don't you think?

[Maria Barrados]

It is. But remember, the rate overall is not that high. It is a phenomenon. I'm not saying it isn't. There is a demographic reality, and we have to deal with it.