Government Operations Committee on Feb. 5th, 2008

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Perhaps this might speed things along, Ms. Chair. I would be willing to consider as the mover of the motion that the subamendment is a friendly amendment without the need to vote on it. I accept that it's the intent of what the motion was. I have no problem with that change whatsoever.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

How about making sure whether we have to include in the motion that we not hold the meeting in a room with a television camera.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

You are the chair, and I'm not seeking that, Ms. Chair. It's your prerogative what room to choose. I'm not seeking it to be anything different from what you would normally do.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

It would be in one of these rooms that we usually have.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

I'm not seeking it to be anything different.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

You're saying this is a friendly amendment and you're willing to include that in your amendment.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Right, and now we're only dealing with Madame Folco's.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

You're in accordance with that. So we're fine. We can just deal with Madame Folco's amendment, which includes Mr. Angus' amendment.

Mr. Warkentin.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

Just so that I get perfect clarification, the second paragraph basically reads that the committee hold one meeting to hear witnesses. Following that are the names of the witnesses that will be brought forward and basically the rest is the City of Ottawa or whoever.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Mr. Moore.

I had Mr. Holland on the list.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

If Mark wants to go first, go ahead.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Mark, did you want to say something?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

No, that's pretty much it. I don't want to get into all the details. I have legitimate concerns and I said I want to express that in a meeting. I think I've outlined some of those. I think going into greater detail will just protract the debate for a long time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Mr. Moore.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Before this committee passes or votes on this motion and asks all these individuals to come before this committee, I want to ask Madame Folco why she wants Wayne Wouters to come before the committee.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

I'll ask my colleague, Mr. Holland, to answer for me.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

It's your motion.

[Raymonde Folco, Liberal, Laval—Les Îles, QC]

Yes, but I'm new to the committee and I think he can explain why better than I and in infinite detail--I can do it in only a general way. So I'm asking my colleague to explain.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

The witnesses are there because there are two principal questions that have to be answered. One is, there was a confidentiality agreement that was entered into between the government and Siemens-PCL/Dufferin. Were the specific details of that contract violated? That's an important question.

Secondly, we know that the minister obtained a copy of the contract on the understanding that it was to remain confidential and then leaked those contents and may well have misrepresented those contents, and that misrepresentation was to the benefit of a particular mayoralty candidate and had a major influence in the municipal election. That's a very serious thing, obviously, if true.

What we're trying to ascertain with this witness list is whether that indeed is what happened. If it did, then that constitutes, obviously, a very serious breach. That's why the individuals are listed here, including the Secretary of the Treasury Board. We want to ask and understand what the Treasury Board understood were the provisions of the confidentiality agreement they entered into. What were they obliged to uphold, having entered into that agreement with Siemens?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

What would the committee gain by having Christa Wessel come before the committee?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

We would understand from the perspective of Siemens what their understanding was when they entered into this confidentiality agreement, their expectations of the government when it was agreed that this was not to be publicly disclosed, and how they felt when this contract was in their opinion misrepresented. Did they feel that the government acted in good faith? Did they feel that they were the casualty of the minister trying to get involved in a municipal campaign? Did that end up in a legitimate contract that should have moved forward--as the other nine did without interruption--being impacted?

I think it would be extremely important to hear from Siemens.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Why do we want to have Kent Kirkpatrick come before the committee?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Again, I think I've answered all of these. I think we have to--

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

If we ask each of these people to come before the committee, it's going to be contentious.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

Madam Chair, we can talk about this all day long.

This is the last one I will do. Certainly we'd also want to know the understanding of the City of Ottawa about the contract they entered into, whether or not they felt the minister misrepresented the terms of those contracts. That's why we would ask him and the other representatives from the city to be there.