Evidence of meeting #10 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was advisers.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10 a.m.
Chair, Interdepartmental Compensation Consultants Committee
No, they changed. Treasury Board has a turnover as great as any other department, and probably greater in some ways.
10 a.m.
Bloc
Meili Faille Bloc Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
Do you think that the problems are amplified today, that the problem is amplified? Since the last series of meetings that you had with the Treasury Board representatives, have the problems become even bigger because you don't see any developments in the file?
10 a.m.
Chair, Interdepartmental Compensation Consultants Committee
Are you referring to negotiating on bargaining?
10:05 a.m.
Bloc
Meili Faille Bloc Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
Among the people you do business with, you still refer to Ms. Jauvin and Ms. Boudrias. Have you always worked with the same people?
10:05 a.m.
Co-Chair, Interdepartmental Compensation Consultants Committee
Yes, they've been there since 2000.
10:05 a.m.
Bloc
Meili Faille Bloc Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
What's troubling in the statement I see here is that, when there are layoffs following tax time, the employer has to provide records of employment within 10 days. Was there any whistle-blowing by the people responsible for employment insurance? Do the people from that department complain that that time frame isn't complied with?
10:05 a.m.
An hon. member
The time frame is five days.
10:05 a.m.
Chair, Interdepartmental Compensation Consultants Committee
Employees who are leaving have to be given a record of employment within a period of five days.
10:05 a.m.
An hon. member
Yes.
10:05 a.m.
Bloc
Meili Faille Bloc Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
So what's reported here in the news and concerns workers is not really a problem?
10:05 a.m.
Co-Chair, Interdepartmental Compensation Consultants Committee
That won't be a problem for our department, but I can't confirm that for Revenue Canada.
She wants to know whether Revenue Canada is doing it within five days.
10:05 a.m.
Chair, Interdepartmental Compensation Consultants Committee
I can't answer that for you. But I would like to address that, because it's an interesting area.
Public Works has a program in the federal public service called iAccess. It gives us the ability to complete a record of employment. It does all the wonderful accounting for us once we plunk in the figures, and it goes directly to HRDC.
The problem is that not every department has it. Some departments that have it can't get it to work because of firewalls. So it's a wonderful tool, and if it were widespread and given to everybody to use, it would certainly make sure those went out on time.
10:05 a.m.
Bloc
Meili Faille Bloc Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
So the problem now is that not all the departments are as advanced.
10:05 a.m.
Co-Chair, Interdepartmental Compensation Consultants Committee
That's correct. Not all the departments have the system that was developed. A number have to do the calculation manually before they can issue a record of employment to the employee.
10:05 a.m.
Bloc
Meili Faille Bloc Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC
I imagine there are still problems with rotational and non-rotational services and with Foreign Affairs. I worked at the Department of Immigration at the time, and we had problems because we had to turn over interfaces with other departments—
10:05 a.m.
Liberal
February 5th, 2008 / 10:05 a.m.
Conservative
Daryl Kramp Conservative Prince Edward—Hastings, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair, and welcome back to our guests, regretfully.
From your previous appearances here, together with representation from the Public Works Commission, Madam Barrados, etc., I am deeply concerned with the statements that we're hearing today, not because I don't agree with them but because we have such an obvious difference in testimony given on behalf of the Public Works Commission, on behalf of Madam Barrados, and on behalf of the union.
This really is a serious problem. We hear in the evidence just given to Mr. Angus that we have people going two years without responses, whether to queries or whatever. This is not only unacceptable, it's intolerable.
We, as a government, cannot operate under such a standard. I'm deeply concerned, and I'm concerned that somebody is misleading this committee. I'll just put it gently: we have been told we don't have a problem; we have been told we do have a problem. So I think you can see the position this committee finds itself in.
I am not content, as a member of this committee, to see this go on in perpetuity, to see a long-standing problem carry on. This has to come to a head. I think this committee has a responsibility to bring this to a head ASAP. There are a lot of questions. I have just a ton of questions, some that would be supportive of various positions both pro and con, and I think others have many questions as well.
I was once an employer of well over a thousand people, and I recognize that it costs much more to train an individual than it does to retain one. It's much more cost-effective for everyone involved and much more productive. That should be almost a truism, but apparently it is not. This is just not acceptable.
On the other side, we don't seem to have enough information to make the comparisons we need. Are other provinces going through this with their public services? Are other countries with similar procedures, similar democracies, going through the same situation?
I don't think we have adequate bases for comparison. Is this problem isolated? Is this just a Canadian federal government problem, or does it exist beyond us? What are some of the solutions? Whether or not it exists beyond these doors, we have a responsibility to ensure that we do not carry on this way.
I brought up this question before in committee. We have institutions and private companies with hundreds of thousands of employees, like banks. Do they have the same situation? Why or why not? They might not have the complexity or the turnover. There is no direct comparison. I understand these realities, but there could be lessons both ways that we could learn.
I think this study and your appearance before this committee is absolutely valuable. It's treasured, and I think the committee should make it not only a part of its record but also a part of its direction. Madam Chair, to your credit, this has been your hobby-horse for quite a while, but we have talked at length about this issue without coming to a resolution.
I would like to see this committee recognize this as a serious priority. We should devote some time to it and and come up with some recommendations. When we have an absolute contradiction, we have to hear back from some of our witnesses. We cannot have misleading statements, ignorant statements, or uninformed statements. The yin and yang aren't where they should be here.
That's not acceptable. I realize that I have not asked you a ton of questions, but I was here when you made representation to committee before, and it is disturbing to hear that the same problems persist without improvement.
I'll let my colleague finish out my time.
10:10 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau
Mr. Warkentin wants to ask a short question before we go to other business.
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
Chris Warkentin Conservative Peace River, AB
Ms. Ronan, regarding the comment you made about access to HRSDC, you said that your department has computer access to HRSDC that allows for providing separation slips. What other mechanism would be used? What other benefits are you able to access as a result of this connection?
10:10 a.m.
Chair, Interdepartmental Compensation Consultants Committee
With HRSDC or with the iAccess program?
10:10 a.m.
Conservative
10:10 a.m.
Chair, Interdepartmental Compensation Consultants Committee
Actually, it's a very nice tool. It allows us to look at payroll registers electronically, against the hard copy. It allows us to provide employees with a copy of their stub if they lose it. We've never been able to do this before. So it has some very user friendly aspects.