Evidence of meeting #14 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was contract.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Wayne Wouters  Secretary of the Treasury Board
Michel LeFrançois  General Counsel, Secretariat Legal Services Branch, Treasury Board Secretariat
Kent Kirkpatrick  City Manager, City of Ottawa
Réjean Chartrand  Former Director of Economic Development and Strategic Projects at the City of Ottawa, As an Individual
Peter Doody  Legal counsel for the City of Ottawa, Borden Ladner Gervais LLP
Rick O'Connor  City Solicitor, City of Ottawa
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Michel Marcotte
Gregory Tardi  Parliamentary Counsel (Legal), House of Commons

9:45 a.m.

Former Director of Economic Development and Strategic Projects at the City of Ottawa, As an Individual

Réjean Chartrand

I don't think I can answer that question. All I can say is that due process was followed. City council had approved the contract and further to the approval of Treasury Board, which was conditional on submitting the project to the new city council, the new council ratified the original decision by city council and also asked the city manager, Mr. Kirkpatrick, to negotiate the withdrawal of a portion of the project. The downtown portion had been hotly debated during the election campaign. The new city council ratified the original decision but also asked that, once the contracts were signed, negotiations begin to withdraw the downtown portion. That was the wish of the new city council and that is what we told the federal and provincial governments.

9:45 a.m.

Bloc

Diane Bourgeois Bloc Terrebonne—Blainville, QC

To your knowledge, does it often happen that at some point, the funding granted by a province or the federal government is withdrawn? Is it the first time that you have seen this?

9:45 a.m.

Former Director of Economic Development and Strategic Projects at the City of Ottawa, As an Individual

Réjean Chartrand

I think that there are many reasons that could justify a change. In this case, following the discussions we had with the province and our colleagues from the federal government, we had fully complied with all of the conditions that had been set out for us. We had received our colleagues' approval in that regard. We were still awaiting the approval of Treasury Board.

9:50 a.m.

Bloc

Diane Bourgeois Bloc Terrebonne—Blainville, QC

Could it be said that Treasury Board's decision to withdraw was unilateral?

9:50 a.m.

Former Director of Economic Development and Strategic Projects at the City of Ottawa, As an Individual

Réjean Chartrand

As Mr. Wouters mentioned, it is a prerogative of Treasury Board to impose conditions. It chose to impose that condition for its own reasons. The city did everything in its power to comply with that condition, which brought about the result that we are now aware of.

9:50 a.m.

Bloc

Diane Bourgeois Bloc Terrebonne—Blainville, QC

Thank you very much.

9:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau

Ms. Bourgeois, your time has expired.

Mr. Moore, you have the floor.

9:50 a.m.

Conservative

James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC

I wanted to reiterate one point and also read something into the record in response to what Charlie Angus was talking about with regard to letters and what precipitated what action.

First of all, to reiterate where we ended last time, money is still available for rail transit for the region. The Ethics Commissioner said nothing improper happened. The Treasury Board Secretariat said nothing improper has happened, and the views of the elected city council of Ottawa have been respected on this matter.

Part of what precipitated the action on this was a letter—Charlie mentioned one letter, but this is in fact a letter that precipitated action—from Gord Hunter, who's the elected councillor for Knoxdale-Merivale ward. He wrote to John Baird on August 10, 2006. The letter was received four days later. I just want to read this into the record, because it's important to understand this:

I am receipt of a letter dated July 24 to Ministers Cannon, Caplan and Cansfield sent by Mr. Ted Gowan, 2 Fox Meadow Lane, Nepean. It is titled “Memorandum of Understanding Ottawa Light Rail Transit Project”. In his covering letter Mr. Gowan is scathing in his criticism of the City of Ottawa for the obvious understating of costs and overstatement of ridership projections. He asks that Federal and Provincial funding commitments be withdrawn or allowed to expire on December 31, 2006 in accordance with paragraph 6 of the MOU. He then provides a thorough assessment of the MOU and how the City has not met the terms of the MOU. For instance, he points out that train times to downtown from Barrhaven will be less frequent and take longer than current bus service. He adds, among other points, that instead of reducing gridlock the LRT system will increase it in downtown Ottawa. Mr. Gowan is very knowledgeable in this field. He knows that this project is not providing value for anyone's dollar. According to the MOU the senior levels of government wanted Ottawa to provide documentation that there is a business case for this light rail project. They have provided the documentation and the business case is not made.

9:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau

Mr. Moore.

9:50 a.m.

Conservative

James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC

It's almost done. There's one more paragraph.

9:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau

I'm under the understanding that something is being distributed.

9:50 a.m.

Conservative

James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC

This is the letter.

9:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau

But we have not been advised of that, nor do we have that--

9:50 a.m.

Conservative

James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC

It's on its way. That's part of the reason I'm reading it.

9:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau

I just thought I'd give you a minute to let us know.

9:50 a.m.

Conservative

James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC

That's fine, and I'm just reading this letter.

9:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau

It is not bilingual, Mr. Moore, and as you know we do not distribute documents that are not translated.

9:50 a.m.

Conservative

James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC

We also don't prevent testimony--

9:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau

We do not accept documents that are not translated. I would ask somebody to pick up all the copies.

If you wish to read it into the record, that is your prerogative, but you cannot distribute it if it is not translated.

9:50 a.m.

Bloc

Diane Bourgeois Bloc Terrebonne—Blainville, QC

No, I would like to have a paper copy of it, Madam Chair.

9:50 a.m.

Conservative

James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC

Madam Chair, thank you. That's why I'm reading it--so it can be translated.

9:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau

Yes, but you are distributing it. I want those copies picked up, because it is not translated.

9:50 a.m.

Conservative

James Moore Conservative Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC

Just chair the meeting.

9:50 a.m.

Bloc

Diane Bourgeois Bloc Terrebonne—Blainville, QC

I would like to have a paper copy, I am visual.

9:50 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau

Ms. Bourgeois, would you like to have it in French?