Government Operations Committee on Dec. 5th, 2007

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Madam Chair, I am going to vote against this motion. First, we heard from the two banks and the Deutsche Bank. Well, perhaps we have not heard from the Deutsche Bank, but we are all capable of going on the Internet and reading committee reports, finding documents and the minutes of meetings where these things were discussed.

Next, I feel that we would not be making so many requests and we would perhaps not be asking so many questions if the minister had had the consideration and the decency to table the documents here and to give us the moratorium we asked for.

I will remind you that, back in June, we had all the information. We asked for the matter to be put on hold, and the minister, with no regard to the respect that was due to us and to this committee, pressed ahead.

For all those reason, I am going to vote against the motion and I ask all my colleagues to do the same, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Mr. Kramp.

[Daryl Kramp, Conservative, Prince Edward—Hastings, ON]

I'm responding to Madame Bourgeois, her claims.

She's going on about the minister. We're talking about statements that have been made here, and statements have to be verified as being accurate or not. There has been an allegation that we have a problem with information. We cannot afford to have wrong information, regardless of the source, whether it's from government or from a second or third party. We need to have this matter cleared up.

[Some hon. members]

Call the question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

As long as I have people asking to speak to it, I'll recognize them.

Mr. Holland, and then Mr. Angus.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

I'll be very brief, because I realize we're out of time.

Given the fact that we may have only one more committee meeting before we end for Christmas, perhaps a more productive way of going about this—because even if we did pass the motion, we may not be able to deal with it until February—is to ask to take Mr. McCracken up on his offer, which is that he would sit down with department officials, go through it line by line, and get an opportunity for you to test the veracity of the information he has put forward. And you could come back to the committee with any concerns or any information that you think Mr. McCracken has that's incorrect. So that would accomplish that.

But passing this motion so that we would deal with it, at the earliest, in February, seems to me to not make any sense. I think our best course of action would be to take Mr. McCracken up on his offer.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Mr. Holland, the motion is only about the Deutsche Bank, BMO, and RBC.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax—Pickering, ON]

I'm just saying we have one meeting.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Mr. Angus.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Excuse me, Mr. Warkentin, Mr. Kramp, I do have the floor.

Thank you. No problem.

I think this is an interesting motion. We certainly need to get to the bottom of it. In the interest of time, I would suggest I would like to be able to ask the minister. He knows the information well enough. He should be able to verify if the facts are correct or not. If there are still questions afterwards, I certainly don't have a problem inviting representatives from the banks to come afterwards. I would certainly like to hear from the minister, and I think he knows his facts. So if we have the minister here, we can ask him that and then we can certainly follow this up after.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

The minister is coming on Monday, I believe.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

So let's have the banks after.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Do you want to withdraw your motion, or do you want us to vote on the motion?

[Daryl Kramp, Conservative, Prince Edward—Hastings, ON]

We'll leave it there. I accept Mr. Angus' assumption. I think that's the interim solution. But these are serious allegations. They need to be dealt with.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

I think Mr. McCracken wants to make one point before we end the meeting.

[Michael McCracken]

I have a quick point.

The allegation of misinformation was restricted to the Deutsche Bank study of July 24, 2007, specifically page 27. Again, I'd be happy in discussions with the department or with others to simply show them why I think they're wrong.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

Thank you very much.

I will end the meeting at this time.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

Call the question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

I will call the question.

We seem to have a tie.

According to the clerk here, I should allow the discussion to continue, and therefore I should vote against it.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

You vote against? You vote in favour of, so that we can continue the discussion with the witnesses.

[An hon. member]

Absolutely.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

We proceed with the question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

It says that you can come back again. I don't know if it leaves it open. I don't think so. I think you had better give me the English version. We understand it better.

Let me read this:

By convention, the Chair will normally vote in such a way as to maintain the status quo or, when no further discussion on the matter is possible, to keep the matter open for further discussion in the committee or at a subsequent proceeding in the House. Where there is a tie vote on an appeal of a Chair’s ruling, the Chair traditionally does not vote.

In this case, I would think that I have to vote in favour of this, and I do.

(Motion agreed to)

[The Chair, Liberal, Diane Marleau]

We'll have at least the Deutsche Bank, and we'll ask the minister on Monday. We can always change...whatever.

The meeting is adjourned.