Evidence of meeting #6 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was value.
A recording is available from Parliament.
December 5th, 2007 / 4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Daryl Kramp Conservative Prince Edward—Hastings, ON
Welcome to our guests.
I just have a few questions, Mr. McCracken. How many staff do you have working on this evaluation?
4:15 p.m.
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Informetrica
This evaluation? I and one other person were working on it. So it was two people.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Daryl Kramp Conservative Prince Edward—Hastings, ON
What professional expertise do you or that other staff person have to provide such a complete and accurate analysis of this?
4:15 p.m.
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Informetrica
Well, most of it is arithmetic that we learned and taught in university, both in economics and elsewhere. My own degrees include a master's in economics and I have about 35 years' of experience. In the case of the other person, they had a BA in economics, and their work was done under my supervision. That's where the expertise came from.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Daryl Kramp Conservative Prince Edward—Hastings, ON
Thank you. I just asked for your impression, because on this committee we have a few members who weren't available through the previous evaluations we had, when we had a multitude of witnesses, many of the quality and the calibre of people such as Professor James McKellar and others like him.
Let me just read you his résumé: Professor James McKellar, Professor of Real Property; Academic Director, Real Property Program, Schuler School of Business, York University; recently published a book that looked at the management of public assets in various countries in order to assist some of the more emerging economies in how they handle the type of government. The professor is also an adviser to a group called the National Executive Forum of Public Property, comprised of 30 members, 10 from each level of government. And on and on it goes.
We had many witnesses like this, with the calibre of this man, who have suggested to the government an independent evaluation of where they should go. Your report flies directly in the face of their professional advice. Are they all wrong?
4:20 p.m.
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Informetrica
I don't know whether they saw the detailed numbers. If they did and concluded this was a good deal, then you have two different people with different opinions.
Is it this professor you're talking about Mr. McKellar?
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
4:20 p.m.
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Informetrica
This is a quote from—
4:20 p.m.
National Executive Vice-President, Public Service Alliance of Canada
May 1.
4:20 p.m.
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Informetrica
—May 1:
Is this a sound approach for government? Well, the answer is both yes and no. You have to know what the details are. It could be a good deal. It could be a bad one. I don't know what the details are. I could say, however, that what distinguishes between this whole business in the public sector and that in the private sector are the two variables that the private sector doesn't deal with. One of those is public perception.
That's what he said, and it sounds to me like a very sound statement. The devil is in the details.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Daryl Kramp Conservative Prince Edward—Hastings, ON
That's fine, but I could give you many other examples.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Daryl Kramp Conservative Prince Edward—Hastings, ON
He says:
Is it a good time to sell? It's a great time to sell. I don't think we've ever seen real estate prices almost at a ridiculously high mark. It's a very legitimate asset class today. I'm not saying that's a reason to sell; I'm just saying that certainly it's a very healthy market today.
And on and on it goes.
We can go back and forth with this. I'm certainly not trying to discredit you. Don't take it personally.
4:20 p.m.
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Informetrica
I'm not worried personally, sir.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Daryl Kramp Conservative Prince Edward—Hastings, ON
I realize that. You've been around the horn many years.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Daryl Kramp Conservative Prince Edward—Hastings, ON
But sir, have you read the Deutsche Bank report?
4:20 p.m.
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Informetrica
Was that the Deutsche Bank?
4:20 p.m.
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Informetrica
Yes, I did. I'm glad you raise that. Was that tabled with you all?
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Diane Marleau
Yes, we were having it translated, I think.
No? We haven't?
But I am told that a lot of the figures have been struck out.
4:20 p.m.
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Informetrica
There are a few on the back.
I would draw your attention—you don't have to look at it now, but just for the record—to page 27 of their study. There's something called the Lease payout summary, and it forms the basis for the total value and the cashflow stream that they're planning to discount. They use that in their calculations a little bit later in the report, on page 31.
The point I'd have you check, though, is that the table's wrong. It has stupid mistakes in it. I don't know how it got out of their internal checking process, but whoever did this, it is not the professionals you were talking about, such as Professor McKellar.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Daryl Kramp Conservative Prince Edward—Hastings, ON
That's fine; if you're on the record as saying the Deutsche Bank report is factually wrong, I accept your opinion on that, subject to verifying, of course, and we could call back the Deutsche Bank officials again to check on it.
4:20 p.m.
Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Informetrica
Yes, it wouldn't hurt.