Government Operations Committee on Nov. 26th, 2009

[John McBain]

Thank you for the question.

This is an archive storage facility, and the transfer of the funding from PWGSC to Library and Archives Canada is to put the funding appropriately with the custodial department. It will be a transfer from our reference level to them. The reason that's occurring is because PWGSC is mandated to provide general-purpose office space--in other words, an office environment where anyone could occupy it, literally perform a briefcase move.

This particular facility is very specialized. It's for archival storage and retrieval. So we at present have the resources for that. We will make the implementation, but we are transferring the resources to Library and Archives, who will be accountable for it in accordance with Treasury Board policy.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

At the time, Mr. Wilson was the Librarian and Archivist of Canada; at the moment, unless I am mistaken, it is Mr. Caron. I have met with both men.

There was talk, at a certain time, of a phase II for the Archives. At the moment, we have what was built around 1993. Public Works and Government Services Canada bought land with a view to phase II of the project. As I understand it—given the trend toward virtual, as opposed to paper, archives, the money was transferred to Archives Canada to store certain archives in what we know as the “old Zellers”, which I imagine will be refitted.

Was that until phase II came on stream? Was all the money transferred? Was it only $5 million? That is still a large sum, $5.3 million. If I remember correctly, the sum of $100 million had been talked about in regard to a phase II. In the meantime, it is a warehouse.

[John McBain]

I must admit, I am not familiar with phase two or the attributes that you described for Library and Archives Canada, and I would ask that Mr. Caron respond to those questions.

What we're proposing in these estimates, if approved, would be to transfer that funding for them for us to do the fit-up. We will still execute it on behalf of Library and Archives at the Zellers building, but that is a discrete project that we will undertake with the approval of these estimates.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Would you be able to get the committee, and me in particular, some information as to what is happening with phase II of the Archives development project? I know that there were plans for such a project; I met with Mr. Caron to discuss the issue. At the moment, the project is in abeyance. If it gets the green light, and we move on to phase II—which entails more than the warehouse that is being refitted— will this money be lost? Will the whole issue have to go back before Treasury Board, or has the money been set aside in a bank account in case phase II of the project becomes a necessity with the advent of digital archives?

[John McBain]

Madam Chair, I'm afraid I cannot make commitments on behalf of my colleagues in Library and Archives Canada. I'm not aware of these plans, but I would submit that the question would best be directed to the national archivist.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

I have another question, this time on the Royal Canadian Mounted Police that has moved from its base in Orleans, in the east of Ottawa, to the west of the city. I recall the debate that took place when the decision was being made: since the government would have to buy buildings, why not consider the Gatineau side of the river, given that land is much cheaper and that it would also allow us to finally redress the imbalance in the distribution of federal jobs, the 25:75 ratio.

I appreciate that this does not directly concern Public Works and Government Services Canada, because you are more involved in buildings than in jobs.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Mr. Nadeau, wrap up, s'il vous plaît.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

When you are planning transfers of this nature, do you consider building in Gatineau, given that land is cheaper and that we still need 6,200 jobs to reach the intended job distribution ration of 25:75 between Gatineau and Ottawa?

[John McBain]

Thank you for the question. There are a number of aspects to what you just asked.

We are always conscious of the 75:25 ratio, and we work to manage that very carefully. Any growth on one side must be balanced with the other, and we are working to catch up on the Gatineau side.

This transfer to RCMP reflects a reduction of the costs that were forecast to be borne by them at the site in south Ottawa, so what we are doing is returning to them funding they had provided to us when we started that project.

In response to your question over considering one side or the other and lower costs, yes, we always bring that to the table as PWGSC. We work with our clients, who set their geographic boundaries for their operational and functional reasons, but we do bring that to the table. We have had success, as you know, with the library and archives building in Gatineau next to the preservation centre. We are promoting federal buildings, and as well we currently have two competitions under way in Gatineau for additional federal buildings.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Thank you.

We will go to Mr. Holder for five minutes.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to our guests for your comments today and for your forthright information. It's very helpful for us, and particularly for me as a newer member of this committee.

I'd like to note that here you are talking in terms of the supplementary estimates (B). That represents about 5%, by my calculation, of the approved main estimates and supplementary estimates. That's the number you are looking for. Of course, the request is for items, even by your own comments, that have been approved by the Treasury Board.

I have a couple of questions about that.

Mr. Lakroni, in your comments you talked about hundreds of projects across this country that have generated activity for small and medium-sized enterprises. Can you expand a little more on that? That certainly was an area of discussion in prior testimony with the folks preceding you this afternoon.

[John McBain]

Perhaps I can respond to your question from the perspective of the real property branch.

Through the economic action plan funding that is addressed in this, and the initial budget from 2009, PWGSC itself has undertaken in excess of 1,400 projects. These are in the buildings that we own from coast to coast. Many of the buildings have more than one project. It also includes four bridges and the Alaska Highway, as we discussed earlier, so there is a broad range of undertaking.

The majority of our building undertakings are being undertaken by our third-party service provider, and they in turn engage a wide range of small and medium enterprises. For example, in previous years they have engaged in excess of 1,700 small and medium enterprises for the maintenance, operation, and repair of our buildings. They've engaged a further number of enterprises for capital projects as well.

We are using exactly the same delivery mechanism for the economic action plan.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

If I may, again in your earlier testimony you talked about something that is certainly going to be very important to Canada, which is the 2010 G-8 summit, which is going to be held in Muskoka. You are looking for a significant amount of money in terms of $8 million in your role as a central service provider. Tell me what that is intended to go for. Help me understand better what that allocation of $8 million is for, please.

[Alex Lakroni]

I will turn to my colleague Renée.

[Renée Jolicoeur]

Thank you for the question.

It is mostly for accommodation and associated leasing fit-ups--for instance, for what we call the summit management offices for the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade. They need a summit office in the national capital region. They also need a summit office in Huntsville, where the event will take place.

There is also a requirement for procurement, procurement of food services. Procurement of the fences is another item. We will also hold events so PWGSC is responsible for the ceremonial and protocol events. We are the organization responsible, so we need funding for that as well. There are the interpretation services, the translation services. So being a common service provider, PWGSC is involved in several of the activities.

For instance, we also need to lease the main site in the Deerhurst Resort, so that's another activity we need to proceed with.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

Would you imagine that this will be sufficient funds to accommodate your role? Or would you anticipate that there are going to be any changes to this number?

[Renée Jolicoeur]

The request is for two years, this year and next year. This will provide for the requirements from the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade. We are expecting requirements from our RCMP as well, but they haven't gone through their Treasury Board submission yet.

So yes, there will be more services required from PWGSC, but they will be funded through a submission that has been approved by Treasury Board but sponsored by RCMP.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

So to be clear, would the RCMP funding request come through here as an additional supplemental estimate, or would that be handled directly through Treasury Board in another way?

[Renée Jolicoeur]

It would be through the RCMP supplementary estimates.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

Thank you very much.

Thank you to our guests for your comments today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Thank you. That was the last question.

I have a couple of issues that were raised by that $64 million that was transferred from capital to operating. The total amounts to $73.9 million. Was it in any way related to the West Block or some of these buildings that are being renovated--asbestos removal, or whatever? Does anybody know what the cost of it is?

[John McBain]

Of the West Block project?

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Yes.

[John McBain]

Yes, we do. That is under the authority of another assistant deputy minister, but we do have that information. That is managed through an oversight committee and an advisory committee on the long-term vision and plan for the parliamentary precinct.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

The question that was asked was did it affect any capital projects that you had in mind? Was it affecting capital projects?