Government Operations Committee on Nov. 16th, 2010

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

I think he was maybe overstating or simplifying his...or making an assertion that is not necessarily backed up with what we've heard. There are people within the department who were there then.

[Michael Fortier]

Maybe I've thrown a wrench into the process here, I'm not quite sure. But if they've gone....

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

Our committee is going to undertake its due diligence, Mr. Fortier, and we appreciate your coming to help us in doing that. I think we're nearing the end of our process in that we're running on fumes at this point, at least I think as it relates to the opposition's quest for some type of wrongdoing. It's clear to me that we're now running on fumes. My expectation is that soon the opposition will come out with a statement that, in fact, everything has been—

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

A point of order.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

—undertaken in an appropriate way, and I'm certain that they will now—

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Mr. Warkentin, one moment, please.

Monsieur Coderre.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Mr. Chairman, I believe it is appropriate for the chair to point out that members are here to do an entirely proper job. Our role is to protect taxpayers. This is the Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates. I am very pleased to see that former Minister Fortier is here. We are asking questions and we have a right to do so. If we discover additional information along the way, so much the better. Whatever the case may be, he is not here to tell us that we are not doing our job and that we are wasting our time. No one is wasting time here.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you for that information, Mr. Coderre. That's not a point of order.

Mr. Warkentin.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

Yes, I appreciate that. I think we've said exactly the same thing, Mr. Chair, the member opposite and myself.

I thank Mr. Fortier for coming, because he adds another layer of credibility to this whole process. We do appreciate it. And I know that our committee will find that all the processes at the political level were absolutely done correctly and absolutely in accordance with what will be in the best interest of all taxpayers.

Thanks.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Warkentin.

I'm going to invite Mr. Conacher--I don't see Mr. Broccolini here yet, but I understand he's in security--to come to the table while the next member, Madame Bourgeois, asks her questions. Then we'll ask Mr. Broccolini and Mr. Conacher for their statements, while Mr. Fortier stays.

Thank you.

Ms. Bourgeois, you have five minutes, please.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I'm going to share my speaking time with my colleague Mr. Lemay.

Mr. Fortier, there are some things that I would very much like to understand. When you were minister of Public Works and Government Services, we invited you to this committee a number of times. Again this morning, I was rereading your opening remarks. You often spoke to us, among other things, about the renovation of the buildings on Parliament Hill. You said at the time that that was a concern of yours because those heritage buildings had to be restored.

As minister of Public Works and Government Services, you were ultimately responsible for the contracts awarded on behalf of the Government of Canada. Officials came to tell us that as well. Do you agree with that?

[Michael Fortier]

Of course, in the House, absolutely.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

As you told us earlier, you regularly received updates every two or three months on progress made on the works, the awarding of contracts, costs, to determine whether the parameters originally set had been met. I imagine those were your updates or briefings.

[Michael Fortier]

Yes, those were updates. I could give you some details, if you wish.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Yes, briefly.

[Michael Fortier]

You start with a certain amount of momentum, but I want to tell you right away that we didn't go into the details of such and such another business.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Mr. Fortier, the government did business with a Montreal company, LM Sauvé, which had submitted a bid $2 million lower than that of any other bidder. After the fact, we learned that that business had brought itself up to standard by relying on the Hells Angels. How is it that no one in your department was able to detect that? You were minister at the time. I remember that, on numerous occasions, you gave this committee guarantees that all security measures had been taken. However, we learned after the fact that LM Sauvé was doing business with the Hells Angels and subsequently that LM Sauvé was not solvent.

Where were you, Mr. Fortier, when you should have been occupying the role of minister responsible for Canadian and Quebec funds? As minister of Public Works and Government Services, you didn't see all that. What happened?

[Michael Fortier]

As regards that contract, I was not informed about it. If the winner of a contract, whether it be this one or another one, is unable to comply with the terms of the contract... You won't be surprised that that isn't the first time that a government supplier has not come up to the mark and has been replaced. However, this is one of those cases. It's unfortunate, and I acknowledge that just as you do. I sense you are outraged, so be it, but in fact that contract, the identity of the contractor, the very existence of that contract for the rebuilding of a roof, masonry, concrete, was not discussed with the minister.

Do you understand?

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Yes, I understand, but that was millions of dollars.

[Michael Fortier]

You're wrong because the renovation of Parliament Hill represents billions of dollars.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

That's even worse.

[Michael Fortier]

It represents billions of dollars. And we discuss how the work will be done from a macroeconomic standpoint, from a logistical standpoint.

I relied on the department. And you should rely on it because it's a very good department where excellent officials manage the mechanics of awarding each of the aspects of the contracts. Whether it be for a roof, masonry, ceramics or wood work, there are people in the department who handle RFPs.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

In any case, we have some questions.

[Michael Fortier]

But you don't think the minister wakes up in the morning and manages 10,000 contracts.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

You're ultimately responsible, minister, and you're unable to answer our questions.