Government Operations Committee on Nov. 16th, 2010

[Michael Fortier]

I'll give a brief answer.

I'm going to give a brief answer to the second part: no, the minister did not intervene.

As for the first part concerning the sale of the buildings, you know very well that I didn't intervene in the contract award. When we issued the RFP, we had planned to be able to retain one or two banks. That means that there could perhaps have been two banks. The first bank on the list that the deputy minister himself had established, the one that was ranked first place when people submitted bids, was BMO. RBC was second. It could have been the National Bank of Canada or the Caisse populaire Desjardins. I wanted there to be two banks, and we reserved the right to have two banks. The deputy minister agreed with me.

So it is false to claim—and you very well know this—that I interfered in the contract.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Monsieur Fortier.

Just before I turn it over to Monsieur Gourde, I'd ask members, toward the end of their questioning, to look towards the chair. Otherwise I end up having to interrupt members.

Mr. Gourde, you have eight minutes.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you for being here today, Mr. Fortier.

When you were minister of Public Works and Government Services, the Government of Canada passed the Federal Accountability Act. Did that change working procedures within the department? Was there a review? What did the implementation of that act mean for you?

[Michael Fortier]

Of course, the act concerned not only our department, but the entire public service as well. I arrived at Public Works and Government Services Canada following Justice Gomery's inquiry and everything that followed it. As you will understand, the atmosphere in the department was not optimistic or positive.

Together with Mr. Marshall, who was deputy minister at the time, I clearly established that my team and I were not interested in managing contracts, but that we were there to help macromanage the department, with regard to both real property, as I discussed with Ms. Bourgeois, and how to save money. So we set parameters from the outset, which I believe comforted the department's senior management.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

We heard here from senior officials of Public Works and Government Services Canada, who clearly said that there was no interference in the awarding of contracts. When you were minister, you received briefings and were given explanations and recommendations.

However, there is no window where you can recommend a contractor. It's more of a process.

[Michael Fortier]

No, it was absolutely out of the question for me to get involved in the awarding of contracts—and I imagine, I hope, and I know that that will be the case for others who follow me, even in other governments. There are more than 10,000 trained employees in the Department of Public Works and Government Services. There are processes, a public system on the Internet called MERX, where people can see exactly what opportunities are available to them, if they are in one industry or another. All that is managed in complete isolation from the minister's office, as moreover should be the case.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

You were able to observe the professionalism of employees at Public Works and Government Services Canada in that process. You worked with them and you were able to see that a competent job was done.

[Michael Fortier]

Yes. Those people are very competent. As you know, Mr. Gourde, they deal with thousands of contracts every year. We don't think about it, but there are all those who win contracts and all those who don't. So a lot of those people are dissatisfied and want explanations. There are post-award conferences where those who have failed in their attempt are given an explanation of the reasons. There is really a rigorous contract award process both upstream and downstream.

When I arrived in the department and saw that there was a system that I thought was rigorous enough, as I told you, I was very much comforted by that.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

We're talking about the buildings on Parliament Hill. We know you were briefed about all the major challenges involved in restoring the buildings on the Hill.

Did you note any specific points relating to those challenges? Were there priorities for certain buildings? It was no doubt recommended to you—

[Michael Fortier]

What struck me was the logistics. When you renovate a building, you have to evacuate it, of course, and rehouse people. Then they have to be brought back. Staff came and went. The department had leased space for everyone to be rehoused. At one point, there were refit plans even at the House of Commons.

So it's really a colossal plan. You have to see it to realize how impressive its scope is. In addition, its execution will have to be spread over a number of years, as you know all too well because you've been living here for a number of years. It's not something you can do in a few years.

So, in response to your question, I would say that what struck me was the scope of the work that had to be done.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

So a number of segments of contracts will be awarded over a number of years. It definitely isn't a comprehensive contract; everything will—perhaps—be separated in the process.

[Michael Fortier]

I haven't been there for two years. However, the plan was to move ahead in stages, as I explained to you, for obvious logistical reasons.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Unless I'm mistaken, when you were at Public Works and Government Services Canada, you witnessed the professionalism surrounding the awarding of contracts, whether it be on Parliament Hill or elsewhere. All the processes put in place show that there is no interference and that the system works well.

[Michael Fortier]

Yes.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Thank you, that's enough for me.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Chris Warkentin]

There are a few more minutes, if anybody else has questions.

Mr. Holder.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

Thank you.

I'd like to thank our guests for attending.

It's been a curious line of questioning thus far from some members around the table, asking you, Mr. Fortier, who had lunch with whom; what did they say when you weren't there; why did you not know what you didn't know; why did you not know if they were there when you weren't there; what did they say when you weren't there to hear. I find that quite bizarre, but I appreciate your responses. I find them refreshing.

I guess I need to ask a couple of questions, if you'd allow me, because I'm trying to understand.

In your role as minister, was your influence ever bought?

[Michael Fortier]

Sorry, was I what?

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

Was your influence ever bought--

[Michael Fortier]

No.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

--to direct a contract--

[Michael Fortier]

No.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

--to award a contract--

[Michael Fortier]

No.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

--or to suggest to others that they should direct a contract to be placed?