Evidence of meeting #36 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was know.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:30 a.m.
Bloc
Marc Lemay Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
Very well.
After each of the fundraisers, did you receive a list of attendees and the amounts of their contributions?
9:30 a.m.
Former Minister of Public Works and Government Services, As an Individual
Afterwards, yes, that was disclosed as it should be under the act.
9:30 a.m.
Former Minister of Public Works and Government Services, As an Individual
I didn't say I hadn't seen him; I'm telling you that that business donated the amount permitted under the act.
9:30 a.m.
Former Minister of Public Works and Government Services, As an Individual
I don't remember seeing his name on the list of donors.
9:30 a.m.
Liberal
9:30 a.m.
Conservative
Chris Warkentin Conservative Peace River, AB
Mr. Fortier, thank you so much for coming this morning. We do appreciate your attendance.
Have you ever been on a fishing expedition?
9:30 a.m.
Former Minister of Public Works and Government Services, As an Individual
On a fishing expedition?
9:30 a.m.
Former Minister of Public Works and Government Services, As an Individual
Have I ever gone fishing? Yes.
9:30 a.m.
Conservative
Chris Warkentin Conservative Peace River, AB
I have, in the literal sense--I have some friends who are avid fishers--and there's nothing more frustrating than being on a fishing expedition and not catching anything.
So you'll understand the frustration of the opposition today, because in fact they're on a fishing expedition and they're not catching anything. What we hear, again and again, from every witness that they bring forward and call to this table, is that there was professionalism within the department as it relates to this contract. Your testimony today reinforces the fact that the West Block contract was done under the professional guidance of the department. You've reinforced that today, so we see that they really are on a fishing expedition when they start to bring up issues that actually weren't even on the agenda today, and they start talking about the sale-leaseback.
You'll recall, a couple of years ago, when I was new to this committee, that we as a committee undertook a study of the sale-leaseback. I see that there's one member at this table who was here with me at that time, but I'll remind committee members what happened at that time. There have been some questions about these banks that were called in. In fact, there were two banks called in, but there were three external advisers that determined who these banks would be.
So we, as the committee on government operations and estimates, undertook a study for some time to ensure that there was no funny business as it relates to the contracting to these banks. We were actually assured and heard testimony that three external advisers to the minister actually made this decision. We as a committee, the committee that was incarnated at that time, were very satisfied that full due diligence was undertaken in the selection of that.
As it relates to the decision to sell these, there was an assessment done by yet a third bank, because it was important that two banks set the parameters, and then a bank that assessed the contract later on would ensure that, in fact, the taxpayer was getting best value for money. Deutsche Bank undertook that and actually praised you, Minister, in the work that your department had done in getting best value for the taxpayer.
We also know that this July, the Auditor General, having looked at this, determined that there was no reason--absolutely no reason--to even review this any further. She felt that there was, again, value for the taxpayer and that no rules had been broken, and that the best thing for Canadians had been undertaken during your time as minister, so we want to congratulate you for that, Mr. Fortier.
In terms of the scope of the contract at hand, and the reason that we're actually here today, there are a couple of things that you reinforced today, Mr. Fortier, and that was the testimony that we heard from a number of high-ranking officials within the public works department.
We did hear testimony from Public Works that there was actually a rationale; when these members opposite, Mr. Martin in particular, start talking about changes that were made to the contracting process, there were actually legitimate reasons for that. They actually described the changes that were made in terms of the scope of the work to the north towers, that the changes made actually were the same changes that were made to the contract as it related to the southeast tower, I believe. That was something that had been done some time before and they felt that they needed to make those changes, so that it better reflected the parameters that were given for the other one because that tower reconstruction had been quite successful.
Mr. Tom Ring actually stated, as it relates to the question of any political involvement in the pre-qualification of the LM Sauvé contract, that, no, there was no political involvement in that change. When asked if the minister, in fact, awarded the contract to LM Sauvé, he said that, no, the contract request was approved at the ADM level--again, reinforcing what you have said today.
Then further, we asked him if anyone from the minister's office was involved in the process. Tom Ring--for those of you who don't know who Mr. Ring is, he's the assistant deputy minister--said that, no, there had not been any political pressure from the minister's office.
9:35 a.m.
Liberal
9:35 a.m.
Liberal
Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC
Thank you.
I wouldn't want to respond to my colleague Chris. If he's talking about a fishing expedition, it's like carp fishing: it's too easy. I'm going to ask Mr. Fortier some more relevant questions.
Mr. Fortier, are you familiar with the concept of ministerial responsibility?
9:35 a.m.
Former Minister of Public Works and Government Services, As an Individual
Yes.
9:35 a.m.
Liberal
Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC
You know that you are responsible for the department, but that you are also responsible for everything that goes on in that department. Do you agree?
9:35 a.m.
Former Minister of Public Works and Government Services, As an Individual
Absolutely.
9:35 a.m.
Liberal
Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC
Do you agree with me that Mr. Côté, your assistant, may have done things behind your back? Is that possible?
9:35 a.m.
Former Minister of Public Works and Government Services, As an Individual
I don't want to attribute any intentions to him. Mr. Coderre, you're free to invite him to testify before the committee. So do that.
9:35 a.m.
Liberal
Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC
He has been your friend for 10 years. You have known him for 10 years. You dismissed him, and there should be a reason for that. There may be something else involved apart from the facts concerning Julie Couillard. That's why we're asking questions.
9:35 a.m.
Former Minister of Public Works and Government Services, As an Individual
Tell me what your question is and I'll answer it.
9:35 a.m.
Liberal
9:35 a.m.
Former Minister of Public Works and Government Services, As an Individual
In what respect?
