Government Operations Committee on Nov. 29th, 2011

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Oh, good.

Well, quickly then, maybe you could just talk about after a settlement is made, after a claim has been negotiated. Can you just talk really briefly about the capability-building and things your department might be doing there, in terms of partnering first nations with provincial and municipal bodies, where you can build education and other kinds of infrastructure?

[Patrick Borbey]

Again, it's a little bit complicated because there's a separation between resolving a specific claim and capacity-building or working with that first nation towards self-government or, in some cases where there's not a treaty, negotiating a treaty. In some cases, we're actually negotiating both issues with the first nation. For example, the Yale First Nation is one of the recent settlements of a specific claim. We also have a treaty that we hope will soon be implemented there.

So they are separate processes; however, from a reconciliation perspective, it's an important step to be able to put the mistakes of the past behind us, to be able to start a fresh, new relationship.

Also, the funding that's provided...sometimes those are big settlements. They're provided in trust. Again, the first nation decides how it wants to manage. It can go to buying more land, where there are land shortages. It can go into investments in economic development. It can go into education programs. There's a whole range of things that the first nation can then do with that money to help build the capacity, and hopefully a brighter future.

Thank you very much.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

Thank you, Mr. Borbey.

That's all the time we have, Mr. Trottier. Thank you.

Denis Blanchette, you have five minutes, and then we'll have a brief round from the Conservatives.

Then I remind committee members that we have to get on to the next round of witnesses, with HRSDC.

Denis, you have five minutes.

[Denis Blanchette, NDP, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would also like to thank the witnesses.

My first question is about the transfers from the Canadian Northern Economic Development Agency to the Health Canada portfolio because of government reorganization. There was an initial transfer of $12 million and then another transfer of $30 million.

What is that exactly? Will there be more transfers like this in the next Supplementary Estimates?

[Susan MacGowan]

The transfers that are listed in the supplementary estimates are, for the most part, transfers that are coming into aboriginal affairs. With respect to the one from health, the $1.6 million, the department has entered into a service agreement, on behalf of Health Canada—

[Denis Blanchette, NDP, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Ms. MacGowan, we're talking about using government reorganization to justify the transfers. I'd like you to explain that specific aspect and not necessarily all the little sums of money here and there.

[Susan MacGowan]

In the case of CanNor, for example, the minister had responsibility for CanNor up until a date in May, at which point responsibility was transferred to Health Canada. There was an accounting done, and that's reflected in the estimates.

With respect to transfers in general, departments generally transfer money back and forth where one of the departments is in a position to enter into an agreement, in our case with a community where there is some opportunity perhaps to have a single agreement as opposed to having multiple agreements with a community.

I'm not sure I'm directly answering your question, but I'm struggling a little bit with what you're getting at.

[Denis Blanchette, NDP, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Anyway, I'll change the subject.

Under the heading "Professional and Special Services", with respect to Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development Canada, on page 200 of the Supplementary Estimates (B), there is an amount a little over $70 million. What portion of that amount went to subcontractors? And why?

[Susan MacGowan]

I don't have that level of detail here, but certainly, if the committee is interested, I can bring back detail.

[Denis Blanchette, NDP, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Thank you.

Under another heading titled "Funding related to the assessment, management and remediation of federal contaminated sites", you are asking for $26 million, which is roughly a 30% increase. I imagine that this concerns the decontamination of mines that you mentioned in your presentation. Is that it?

Since these things are foreseeable, how is it that there is suddenly a 30% increase in the budget? What happened?

[Susan MacGowan]

I'll probably ask my colleague Janet King to elaborate, but this was money that was announced in the federal budget. It's a horizontal initiative, and this was the mechanism to bring the money into the department.

Janet, would you like to expand on that?

[Janet King]

Yes, it was about the timing. It wasn't a brand-new ask. It was about when the money was made available and brought into the departmental budget.

[Denis Blanchette, NDP, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Is it customary for you to pay for the decontamination of mines? After all, it's private companies that are doing the polluting, but it's public money that has to be used for the decontamination. Is that usual?

[Janet King]

Since 2002, regulations have been in place. The private sector posts bonds to manage the mitigation of sites. Prior to 2002, such requirements did not exist. Speaking for the north in particular, two of the major mining projects—the Faro and the Giant—were active when the government did not have requirements for the companies to mitigate all impacts as they closed down. When they closed these companies as active mines, they reverted to the control of the Government of Canada. The Government of Canada thereby became responsible for their mitigation.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

Denis, I'm afraid that's the end of your time.

Thank you, Ms. King.

Mike Wallace, did you have a few minutes you'd like to...?

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Yes, thank you.

I'd like to come back to the Indian residential school thing, just so I understand the budgeting of it. I want to be clear that I'm in favour of resolving these issues. I just want to make sure I understand the money when I'm looking at these books.

Vote 45 has residential schools in supplementary estimates (B)...well, it's not in supps (B); it's from already approved authorities to date. The figure is $33.5 million, based on what's printed in your book.

The item we're talking about today was $179 million, which is $136 million of new money, with $43 million reprofiled. In my understanding, that means we had a budget last year, we didn't spend it, so we're reprofiling it into this year's estimates.

Am I right? Are we talking about the same line item, the same area, or am I mixing two things up?

[Élisabeth Châtillon]

Thank you for the opportunity to clear this up. The $179 million that we are seeking this year is to add funding to the settlement allotment, to make additional payments for the independent assessment process. With the adjudication secretariat, we have been successful in increasing our productivity, and we expect this year to be able to do 4,000 hearings. So we need more funds for the—

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Right, so is that what the $33.5 million was for?

[Susan MacGowan]

No, sorry, that's the Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada—

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

That's something totally different.

[Élisabeth Châtillon]

Yes, it's a completely different project.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

That's where I was getting confused.

[Élisabeth Châtillon]

That's what the honourable member was talking about, the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

So that is completely different?