Government Operations Committee on Dec. 13th, 2011

[Denis Blanchette, NDP, Louis-Hébert, QC]

As far as staffing is concerned, there has been a high turnover. Four years after the launch of this agency and you still have not filled all your positions. What do you plan to do about that?

[Mario Dion]

There are still two positions for a total of 37.

[Denis Blanchette, NDP, Louis-Hébert, QC]

You have 35, not 45.

[Mario Dion]

There were never 45. In theory we had the capacity to hire 45, but I prefer to have fewer people who are qualified over having more people who are less qualified.

[Denis Blanchette, NDP, Louis-Hébert, QC]

I got that figure from the annual report.

[Mario Dion]

In June, I had not thought this through. There are currently 35 people and we have two positions left to fill.

[Denis Blanchette, NDP, Louis-Hébert, QC]

We were talking about your future commitments. You spoke of transparency. What else can we expect?

[Mario Dion]

I believe we need to educate and support potential claimants, as I was saying earlier. We need to provide support that is not technical in nature. That is what I am considering for the future for people who have nothing to do with decision making. I am talking about people who know the workings of the office.

We cannot tell someone how to go about this process and turn around two weeks later and tell them that their claim is inadmissible. It cannot be the same person. In the past, sometimes it was the same person.

[Denis Blanchette, NDP, Louis-Hébert, QC]

How much time do I have left Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

You have one minute, Denis.

[Denis Blanchette, NDP, Louis-Hébert, QC]

You mentioned the act. You said it was your bible, but that the bible is far from perfect.

We know that the legislation will be reviewed. Based on your experience, can you tell us what would help you fulfill your role better given the fact that, as a legal expert, you quite like respecting a specific legal framework? In the meantime, you want to be able to finish your work.

[Mario Dion]

First, I want to say that I do not think I said the act was imperfect. I said that the act was poorly organized. That is not exactly the same thing. In fact, the sections are scattershot, but once you find the section you are looking for, it reads well and there is no problem.

I have some ideas. I have complied a few ideas on things that might be worth considering changing when the President of the Treasury Board launches the five-year review of the legislation.

The Liberal Party representative, Mr. McCallum, spoke earlier of the private sector and the fact that it cannot be touched. When the time comes, section 34 will probably end up on the list of things that I will suggest to the parliamentary committee or the resource that the President of Treasury Board will retain for the review. That is an example.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

Thank you, Mr. Dion, and thank you, Denis.

Now for the Conservatives we will go to Mr. Peter Braid. You have five minutes, Peter.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and happy birthday.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

Thank you.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Dion, for being here this afternoon. Thank you also for your leadership in this role and for your public service over the past 30 years.

I have some questions that emanate from your presentation remarks at the beginning of our meeting.

Mr. Dion, you mentioned one of the first things you did after you assumed this role was to conduct a review of the previous 228 case files. Are you confident that review was impartial, objective, and effective?

[Mario Dion]

I would say it was, absolutely.

First I defined the grid that would be used. But what are you checking for? Deloitte provided us with a group of five very competent professionals, at different levels, who were entirely devoted to doing this. They delivered it on time.

Step two was to take the 70 files. I had two senior lawyers who had not been involved in the office previously in any way, shape, or form, who took each of the 70 and recommended a course of action to me in light of all the facts of these cases. We also had case conferences on each and every case. So I was sitting here, and the two senior lawyers were giving me their advice in writing, but we were discussing them as well, so I could ask every question about every aspect of the file before actually making a decision. We were rigorous. I was objective too, because I had no prior association with the office.

When I was appointed I had no idea whether we would find that 5% of the files had a problem or 75%. I had no preconceived idea, and I was prepared to live with the results. So I'm absolutely confident in the objective, independent, and rigorous nature of the exercise.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Thank you.

I'm going to change gears now. You also explained in your remarks that you've adopted new service standards, requiring the admissibility reviews to be completed within 45 days. What percentage of your cases are you hoping to complete within that timeframe? Is there a percentage associated with that?

[Mario Dion]

We're aiming for at least 85%.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Okay.

[Mario Dion]

And the performance appraisals of those responsible will be based on achieving that objective.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Excellent. That's always a good motivation.

Now, is this too new for us to have any results yet, or do we have any initial results with respect to this service standard?

[Mario Dion]

I don't have results yet, because we started that only in September. We had to deal with the backlog before we could do that.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Great. Thank you.

My third question deals with the importance of outreach in education, and you've referred to this a couple of times. I understand entirely why it's important to make sure there is awareness of the role and the mandate of your office within the federal government. You also mentioned that it's important to educate the general public at large. Could you explain why that's the case?

[Mario Dion]

Under the act, a member of the general public can also disclose. The criteria and the conditions are somewhat different, but members of the public have access to this act as well if they witness a wrongdoing as defined under the act.

I would venture to guess that a small proportion of 34 million Canadians actually know they have this right under the act, so I have to find an economical, effective way of reaching those Canadians.