Government Operations Committee on March 5th, 2012

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank our witnesses for coming here today. It is appreciated.

I would like to ask two questions pertaining to the document which contains the presentation you just gave.

The document states that, because the Privy Council Office provides internal support services to a few organizations, to the tune of $75,000 for 2011-2012, the wording of a supplementary estimates (C) vote needs to be changed.

To what services and to what organizations are you referring?

[Joe Wild]

The services are in the nature of internal services, administrative services, financial management, human resources support, audit function, records management, IT support—those kinds of things. The organizations that they're provided for would be the SIRC, the Security Intelligence Review Committee, as well as the Public Appointments Commission Secretariat.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Thank you for that clarification.

You also stated that almost 1.4 million additional dollars were going to be allocated to the Commission of Inquiry into the Decline of Sockeye Salmon, which was already granted a first extension up to this June 30.

Could you please tell us what that $1.4 million will be spent on? Are you in a position to confirm to us that there will be no further requests for extensions and that the work will be wrapped up by June 30?

[Joe Wild]

The $1.4 million was necessitated due to the commission’s having to recommence public hearings for an additional three days in order to receive submissions on the infectious salmon anemia virus. That contributed to the need to have some additional costs for commission counsel, the preparation of transcripts, translation services, as well as counsel for the participants that are receiving funding.

In addition, the commissioner has indicated that the final report is going to probably be at least double the page length of what he initially thought it was going to be. That's driven primarily by the scope and complexity of the issues the commissioner is addressing, so that's the typical stuff for the cost of writing and drafting of the report—the editing, the translation, and those sorts of things.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Three additional days of hearings would cost $1.4 million?

[Joe Wild]

It's not just the three days of hearings. There would also be the preparation time for commission counsel to be able to conduct those hearings. It would be any additional time they would have to have paid for any of their scientific experts to provide them with advice and support them in the preparation of the conduct of those hearings. There would also be the costs for the 15 participant organizations who have counsel that are being reimbursed, and as I mentioned, there's also the fact that the report is going to be substantially larger than originally contemplated. So a chunk of that money—I don't know the breakdown between the two—is also for a report that's going to be double the size they anticipated it would be.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

Did you also participate in the strategic review exercise involving expenditure reductions that the government would like to undertake? Did you have to submit one scenario for next year involving a 5% expenditure reduction and another involving a 10% reduction? Did you, like the other departments, have to go through that exercise?

[Michelle Doucet]

Thank you for your question.

Yes, we are like every other department, and we have participated in the strategic and operating review.

[Alexandre Boulerice, NDP, Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, QC]

We met with representatives of organizations speaking on behalf of people who practice various occupations within the federal public service. They told us that this strategic review has created considerable tension because it has led to an enormous amount of uncertainty. Nobody knows what is expected of them. No one knows if their position will be eliminated or not. In fact, these representatives have told us that this has undermined the work environment and has increased tension amongst public service employees.

Have you witnessed within your own department any problems linked to human resources management that would have been caused by this uncertainty?

[Michelle Doucet]

I would clarify that we, like everybody else in government, are awaiting the government's decision on the strategic and operating review, so I don't know what those decisions are.

With respect to the strategic review, and we're just finishing year one of that, I would say—this is my seventh week at the Privy Council Office—my observation is that it is quite a harmonious workplace. But I think we're all cognizant that reducing the size of any organization runs the risk of creating morale problems, and that as managers and leaders we have an obligation to be cognizant of that and to pay attention to that.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

Thank you very much.

Jacques, you have five minutes.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you to the witnesses for coming today.

I would like to congratulate Ms. Doucet on her appointment as assistant deputy minister. Congratulations, that is a very important position.

I would like to make sure that I have understood something correctly. I believe there was some confusion earlier on. It was stated that $500,000 from the Prime Minister's Office was returned. However, the Cabinet is the Office. Please correct me if I am mistaken. The Privy Council Office gives a budget to the Prime Minister's Office, which is synonymous with the “Prime Minister's Cabinet”, in order to hire a chief of staff, special advisers, political advisers, a press secretary, a director of communications. Furthermore, the Privy Council Office is actually the department of the Prime Minister. So far that is correct.

Now, what percentage of the budget of the Prime Minister's Office or Cabinet do the returned $500,000 represent? There seemed to be an indication earlier that it was less than 1% of the budget, but I don't think that is the case.

[Mathieu Ravignat, NDP, Pontiac, QC]

The budget of the Privy Council Office.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

Don't ignore them. You're answering.

[Marc Bélisle]

Let us look at the published expenditures of the Prime Minister's Office for last year. Approximately $9 million were in the public accounts; therefore $500,000 represents a little more than 5% of the $9 million we are talking about.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Between 5% and 6%?

[Marc Bélisle]

Yes.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

It should just be understood that the Prime Minister's Office is one thing and the Privy Council Office is another, with its own budget. It is important that Canadians make the distinction. Either the members of the opposition misunderstood, or they attempted to confuse Canadians. I think that the record has now been set straight.

You have significant expenditures within the Privy Council Office, but you also have a very good budget. You stated earlier that you were going to no doubt attempt to control your expenditures.

In that vein, did the Privy Council Office grow in 2007, 2008, 2009 and 2010, or did its budget remain quite stable?

[Marc Bélisle]

It is important to note that the Privy Council Office supports several temporary initiatives. For example, we were talking about commissions of inquiry; we have conducted several on a regular basis over the past few years. I would say that this represents an average of approximately $12 to $15 million per year over the past few years. We also have several term programs, as they are called. One example would be the Task Force on Afghanistan. That is an initiative that ends on the 31st of March this year and that represents approximately $4 million to $5 million per year. There were also the Olympic Games and the G8 Summit. The Olympic Games coordinator was part of the Privy Council Office. There is also Ward Alcock's Task Force on Human Smuggling.

Many of these initiatives last for a specific period of time. That is why our core expenditures do not fluctuate much. On the other hand, because of these additional initiatives and commissions of inquiry, our budget expenditures tend to increase. Once those initiatives are over, the expenditures go back to their basic level.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Year after year, because of various circumstances, special budgets are approved for new tasks or simply to conduct these commissions.

[Marc Bélisle]

That is correct.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

One cannot therefore necessarily foresee these expenditures more than one year in advance because there are always circumstances that require expenditures.

[Marc Bélisle]

That is correct. That is why quite often, we are granted funds for these purposes under the supplementary estimates. Quite often, these initiatives arise over the course of the year. We therefore have to be able to react quickly and establish their entitlement.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That is all.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Mike Wallace]

Merci.

Our next questioner is Mathieu, for five minutes.