Evidence of meeting #54 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was buildings.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

John McBain  Assistant Deputy Minister, Real Property Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Geoff Munro  Chief Scientist and Assistant Deputy Minister, Innovation and Energy Technology Sector, Department of Natural Resources
Carol Buckley  Director General, Office of Energy Efficiency, Department of Natural Resources
Caroline Weber  Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Services and Strategic Policy Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services

8:45 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

We'll call the meeting to order. This will be the 54th meeting of the Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates.

We're very pleased and very grateful to welcome today as our guests and witnesses representatives from the Department of Public Works and the Department of Natural Resources as we undertake an overview of where we are with the greening of the public buildings and the energy efficiency and energy retrofit study that we would like to undertake as a committee.

We thought it would be useful, of course, to find out what the lay of the land is currently and who is doing what. We understand that there's a great deal of work already under way in this regard throughout the federal government's holdings.

Therefore, we'd be very pleased to hear from, first of all, Mr. John McBain, the assistant deputy minister of the real property branch of Department of Public Works, and then I understand Mr. Geoff Munro will make a presentation on behalf of Natural Resources.

Mr. McBain, you have the floor for as long as you like.

8:45 a.m.

John McBain Assistant Deputy Minister, Real Property Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services

Thank you, Mr. Chair and members of the committee.

On behalf of my colleague, I would like to thank you for inviting us here today. We are pleased to appear before you to discuss the role of Public Works and Government Services Canada in enhanced energy efficiency and potential cost reductions for federally owned or operated building structures in Public Works.

I am John McBain, assistant deputy minister responsible for the real property branch of the Department of Public Works and Government Services Canada. With me is Caroline Weber, assistant deputy minister, corporate services and strategic policy branch.

We welcome the opportunity to speak with you on the subject of the two major areas of responsibility of PWGSC that pertain to your area of study, namely, the functions of our real property branch and our Office of Greening Government Operations.

PWGSC plays an important role in the daily operations of the Government of Canada. As one of 29 major custodians for real property owners in the federal context, we are the principal owner of office accommodation. We also manage a diverse real estate portfolio, including 1,475 leases and 20 major engineering assets.

While PWGSC's 335 crown-owned buildings represent less than 1% of the 39,670 federal buildings that currently show on Treasury Board's inventory, the floor space managed by Public Works represents 31% of the federal inventory. Our crown-owned inventory itself totals approximately 4 million square metres of building space throughout Canada. The magnitude of these holdings, which house some 269,000 public servants in 1,819 locations across Canada under our accountability, puts us in a position to demonstrate leadership for effective and efficient use of federal real property.

In addition to the real property function, the department created the Office of Greening Government Operations to serve as a focal point for efforts directed at managing federal operations in a more sustainable manner and to work with other government departments to accelerate the greening of government operations as a whole.

PWGSC's practices conform to Treasury Board's policy on the management of real property and the federal sustainable development strategy. This ensures that real property is managed in an environmentally responsible manner while providing best value to the taxpayer.

We have been actively engaged in reducing the energy consumption of assets through a number of means.

These include adopting leadership in environmental and energy design, or LEED, and Green Globe targets for new building and major renovations, and adopting the Building Owners and Managers Association's Go Green Plus or BOMA BESt practices for improving how we manage and operate our existing buildings in a sustainable way.

Third, we employ the federal buildings initiative, an innovative approach to involving private sector investment to reduce the consumption of energy and water in our buildings. Fourth, we have developed and implemented Workplace 2.0, an initiative to modernize the workplace environment, including shrinking the space allocation for offices and providing a greener office environment. Fifth, we established targets for our portfolio's performance on reductions of greenhouse gas emissions and energy consumption.

Last, but certainly not least, we undertake special initiatives, such as our low-carbon memorandum of understanding with our colleagues at NRCan, and pathfinder projects aimed at making our buildings more intelligent.

In specific terms, I can elaborate on these points as follows. We require that any new office building, crown-owned or long-term leased, be built to respond to and achieve the Canada Green Building Council's LEED gold certification. For all buildings under major renovations, a LEED silver certification is a requirement. PWGSC currently owns six buildings that have obtained a LEED gold or silver certification, and we have 14 buildings under construction or under certification consideration that are targeted to achieve LEED certification.

As an example, the Jean Canfield Building, located in Charlottetown, Prince Edward Island, received official LEED gold certification in 2011. It was the first Government of Canada building to achieve this certification in Atlantic Canada. It was built with a number of design features to reduce energy consumption, including heat recovery from exhaust air, as well as daylight harvesting and, at the time, Canada's largest photovoltaic solar panel array on the roof of the building to provide electricity directly to the building. Additionally, the building has no heating or cooling plant itself. We chose to connect to Charlottetown's district energy system.

Regarding BOMA Go Green Plus, which is a sustainability assessment for standard buildings and operations and maintenance, 259 of our crown-owned buildings have been assessed. Of these 259 buildings, 66%, or 170, have been certified by BOMA Canada as green buildings in terms of how they're operated.

We have implemented 40 projects under the federal buildings initiative developed and administered by the NRCan Office of Energy Efficiency, all of which have led to a direct reduction in water and energy consumption.

On April 2, 2012, PWGSC launched the Government of Canada Workplace 2.0 fit-up standards. The standards provide direction to create effective and productive work environments for employees, accommodating individual work styles, alternative work strategies, and sustainable design principles, while also reducing the amount of space allocated for offices by two square metres per person.

Workplace 2.0 will encourage green, smart buildings, environmental controls, and more natural light along with a smaller footprint that will not only help save energy but also produce more efficient buildings. It will be applied to all new federal accommodation projects.

As standard practice, all buildings over 1,000 square metres are energy-audited on a five-year cycle. These audit reports identify opportunities for energy conservation that feed directly into our annual building management planning, or BMP, cycle. Our BMP cycle is the heart of our annual process that builds on inspections and condition ratings. It is the core of how we manage our portfolio, and special initiatives, such as the FBI project, are programmed and planned throughout this cycle.

From a policy perspective, Treasury Board's policy on the management of real property requires each deputy head to be responsible for ensuring that the real property within their accountability is managed in an environmentally responsible manner consistent with the principle of sustainable development. The policy requires that we meet a number of objectives, which, as a department, we translate into specific standards, policies, and best practices.

PWGSC also works with policy leads in specific areas, such as the recently signed memorandum of understanding between PWGSC and NRCan to collaborate on and partner in a program to lower the carbon footprint in the PWGSC buildings that NRCan occupies. Together, we believe the two departments can aspire to a leadership position for this and all other custodians.

In the context of the federal sustainable development strategy, PWGSC is committed to reducing greenhouse gas emissions by 17% by the year 2020 from our 2005 consumption. Over the five years from 2005 to 2010, PWGSC has achieved a reduction of about 5%, equating to an estimated cumulative savings of $17 million. Between 2001 and 2010, PWGSC achieved a 19% reduction in energy consumption at our crown-owned and lease-purchase assets.

There are numerous other initiatives within our department that will help us reduce our energy consumption in buildings. Notwithstanding, we continue to identify opportunities for improvement, and in many instances we are collaboratively engaging our colleagues with other federal departments on the common objective of energy sustainability. More can and will be done in the years to come.

Again, we thank the committee for the opportunity to attend here today. We will be pleased to respond to your questions.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

8:55 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

Thank you very much, Mr. McBain.

I should mention that Mr. Geoff Munro is both the chief scientist and the assistant deputy minister for the innovation and energy technology sector.

Mr. Munro, you have the floor.

8:55 a.m.

Geoff Munro Chief Scientist and Assistant Deputy Minister, Innovation and Energy Technology Sector, Department of Natural Resources

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

I will also introduce my colleague, the director general of the Office of Energy Efficiency, Ms. Carol Buckley. Depending on exactly where the questions go and what you are interested in, Carol will certainly be able to add to anything I can provide the committee.

I, too, am pleased to be here to hopefully help scope the study you're going to undertake and to give you a perspective on what we're trying to do within Natural Resources Canada. In our context, it is driven largely by what we're calling NRCan's low carbon agenda, but there is a direct correlation between low carbon and reducing the carbon emissions of buildings and the energy savings associated with doing so.

Our department's real property portfolio consists of some 222 owned buildings, 39 leased, and 47 that we are the occupants of, with PWGSC in the management role. I should stress that this 222 sounds large, but that counts everything that has a footprint. There are a lot of rural-based and regional-based storage facilities and whatnot. Our major occupancy is either office space or laboratory, and it numbers in the 25 to 26 range, depending on exactly how you count. Of that, there are 17 sites that represent 94% of NRCan's GHG emissions. So it's those 17 sites that we are most focused on.

A deck was distributed to the committee members. If you look at page 2, you will see the three themes of our NRCan low carbon initiative. Clearly, one is to reduce, using the same baseline of 2005-06 and driving to the 17% reduction by 2020. In truth, our math would take you to 19% because we recognize that weather variables and unknowns can sometimes take you down on a bit of a jagged curve, such as where you go back up in the occasional winter because of the costs associated with a cold winter. We had a steam pipe leak in one building and that cost us some energy. There are things like that, so we've targeted an additional 2% in our overall calculations.

Working with our colleagues at PWGSC, we believe that we can be a government leader in implementing state-of-the-art energy efficiency programs, and we also are using our laboratories primarily as living labs to understand and showcase the efficient practices and technologies.

Moving to slide 3, you can see how we intend to achieve the 5.7 kilotonnes that are associated with a 17% reduction. There are a number of components to that.

You've heard my colleague John McBain talk about building management plans. We use them as well, as you can imagine, and we figure that we will gain about 0.8 kilotonnes just by following the efficiency plans that are already in place in those building management plans.

There's another kilotonne associated with what we call “LoC”. That's low carbon. There are minor retrofit projects, things that we can afford to do within our existing budgetary responsibilities as a custodian department.

As you can see, the accelerated infrastructure program is our own acronym and was in fact part of the modernizing federal laboratories initiative of two and three years ago. We figure that we've gained about another 0.32 kilotonnes there.

The FBI is the big one, and you'll hear us talk more and more about the federal buildings initiative. You can see that there are almost 3.2 kilotonnes in our plans associated with the federal building initiative.

Finally, we've already gained almost a kilotonne in savings that were part of the operational and equipment improvements.

If you go to slide 4, you'll get a bit of a quick flavour using the pictures of the different kinds of initiatives. These are everything from the low-cost, no-cost measures of making sure lights are turned off at the end of the day to operational and equipment improvements. Going around in a circle from that top right perspective, you have 13 sites across Canada where we figure there's as much as $8 million worth of the federal building initiative's value that can be gained. We're not quite that far yet, but we're certainly starting down that track.

I explained the accelerated infrastructure. That deals with things like new boilers, new chillers, etc., that were built in during the modernization of federal labs.

There are some simple things that we were able to do. We found ourselves in a one-to-three ratio of printers to occupants of the building. The standard is one to eight. We are now at one to eight and, lo and behold, we've gained GHG reductions and lowered our costs. Also, we're hopefully going to get healthier people as they get up and walk.

As I said, we also have building management plans, including things like motor and pump replacements.

That kind of gives you a flavour of the different aspects that we're going after to achieve that reduction.

The whole plan is captured in that little house diagram on page 5. I won't read all of the bullet points. I think they're self-explanatory in large part. They deal with a number of components.

I'd like to highlight, too, under the second major bullet, the first check mark, “building optimization”. I'll explain a little more about that in a moment. Then I'll highlight the program, under the third major bullet point, “external funding—FBI”.

I'd like to unwrap those a little bit for the committee. I think they are opportunities that you might want to consider.

Turning to the FBI program first—I'm looking at slide 6—it's a program that was developed and administered by the Office of Energy Efficiency to improve energy performance in federal facilities. The intent is to use an energy performance contract with an energy services company. We get caught up in acronyms: EPC and ESCO are the two.

The EPC enables the private sector to finance and implement energy retrofit projects that are repaid then through the energy savings. The key here is that the EPC can actually provide the capital investment where major capital improvements are necessary to achieve the savings, as compared to that circle of activities, which I showed you a moment ago, that we can do within the department. Working together, we get the opportunity to achieve the overall savings. In a world of funding constraint, FBI provides an essential vehicle to fund capital investments for retrofits.

Moving to slide 7, I won't read it but I'll provide it as information. There's a series of FBI success stories. You can see it wanders across a number of departments and agencies within the government: RCMP, the Royal Canadian Mint, the Communications Research Centre of Industry Canada, the Canada Centre for Inland Waters down in Burlington, the National Research Council, and others.

I believe the speaking points that are associated with that slide will be made available to the committee members. You'll get more specifics of the actual numbers that are accrued in the way of savings, both in GHG reductions and dollars, in those examples.

The other area I'd like to unwrap for a moment or two is the NRCan expertise that we have in building optimization. The simplest analogy here would be the gains that you get when you take your car in and get it tuned up. Building optimization is tuning up the building.

There are a number of small, often quite small...I won't call them errors, but operational problems—the different components of the HVAC system aren't talking to each other, the lights are on, something's being heated or cooled when it turns out it's a storage room and doesn't need the same level—linking the activities of the building to the various components of the energy efficiency infrastructure.

What we've done is we've developed a diagnostic tool. You can see it named under the third bullet point, “DABO”, the diagnostic agent for building operation. That software diagnoses all of the preset conditions of all of the components of any building with a central control system on a 24-7 cycle. It works ahead of time—i.e., saying that something is going out of the zone, and you can adjust now. If you actually get yourself into a problem, it can give you advice on how to fix the problem. Then, after the fact, it can also say, in a retroactive sense, here's what happened, and here's how you can prevent it from happening again. Part of our plan as we move forward with the NRCan buildings is to install DABO in all of the buildings that have that central control system.

I should stress right at the beginning of this whole discussion around DABO that just by itself it's not sufficient. It's a great tool, but as in all cases, using a tool properly is the key. There's a training component associated with the building management itself that links with DABO, and the combination of the two can be very effective.

We figure as much as 10% to 20%, depending on the building age, the building condition, etc., can be gained. It costs about a dollar a square foot, with somewhere in the neighbourhood of a three- to five-year payback.

Our low carbon accomplishments to date have been focused largely on the creation of eight site energy teams. Energy management plans have begun for each of the 17 facilities.

Governance, we find, is an interesting challenge. If you're working in a scientific laboratory, the person running the lab, the director general or the director on site, tends to be a science-oriented person and is driving programs. Then you have a support mechanism in engineers and people who are running the building.

Getting those two to work together in terms of the overall operation of the building, so that the use of the building and the correlation to how the building's heating and cooling systems are managed, etc., is a key objective, and it has proved very successful. We've implemented a number of minor energy retrofits that we figure will give us an equivalent of about 325 tonnes of CO2 per year in our custodial buildings. That's without the FBI program.

We're also benchmarking all our buildings. You heard my colleague from PWGSC talking about the BOMA BESt system. There are four levels to BOMA BESt. We are working to upgrade all of the buildings through that system. As you can see on the slide, we've completed 9 out of 21 certifications.

John also talked about our collaboration with PWGSC to accelerate carbon reductions. That memorandum of understanding is highlighted on page 10, which indicates that we're collaborating in three primary areas.

They include the actual increased awareness of energy efficiency, engaging senior leadership, and increasing the knowledge of carbon reduction opportunities through an education and training program, etc. Benchmarking is also included in that first area because that's critical: if you can't measure it, you don't know whether you're winning or not. Also included is reducing financial and policy barriers: trying to figure out exactly what barriers are impeding the suggested actions and how we can go about solving that dilemma, and working with key federal departments on the next round of the FSDS targets. Then, finally, we have implementing specific initiatives: the building operation I was talking about, and optimization, the Workplace 2.0 that John was talking about, etc.

Our final role in Natural Resources Canada is also to move outside the federal family, so I bring to your attention on slide 11 the point that we are working to make the overall stock of buildings in the country more efficient as well. We work on the development of codes. We've led the development of a model building code, which is 25% more stringent than the previous code. Eleven provinces and territories are now adopting this code—part of a robust intergovernmental relationship—and ministers of 14 jurisdictions jointly released an energy efficiency progress report in Charlottetown in early September.

We're also very active in standards and labels. We have over 40 standards in place. We've set a minimum level of performance for motors, lights, computers, and audio equipment. It's part of the reason why you can't buy a fridge with poor energy efficiency when you go to the furniture store—because the standards are in place to prevent that.

Training is the third component: trying to make operations more efficient. Some 25,000 Canadians have taken our energy management training since 1997, with estimated savings of over $175 million across the country. Two thousand of those participants were public servants, including 400 from National Defence—the air force bases, which are putting special emphasis on training their employees.

Let me echo my colleague's statement in thanking you for the opportunity to talk about building energy efficiency. We look forward to the committee's questions.

Thank you very much.

9:10 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

Thank you very much, Mr. Munro.

That's a very interesting overview. I'm sure my colleagues do have a great number of questions.

Just prior to going on, for the federal buildings initiative, can you give us an idea of how many buildings have availed themselves over the years of that particular program, just to give us a sense of it?

9:10 a.m.

Chief Scientist and Assistant Deputy Minister, Innovation and Energy Technology Sector, Department of Natural Resources

Geoff Munro

I'll ask my colleague to speak to that, because that is run through the Office of Energy Efficiency.

9:10 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

You're on.

9:10 a.m.

Carol Buckley Director General, Office of Energy Efficiency, Department of Natural Resources

Thank you for the question, Chair.

We have served 16 departments since the program started in 1991. I'm just checking my notes here so I don't misspeak. I believe we've covered over 80 buildings in that time.

But let me put it in a way that may be easier to understand. Of all of the federal buildings initiative projects that have happened since the program's inception, we have addressed one third of the crown-owned space. So at one time or another, as much as one third of the space that the crown manages has been addressed in an energy-saving retrofit under the federal buildings initiative since 1991. Some departments, in fact, have come back twice. They've done a project early enough that they were able to come back and get more savings over time.

9:10 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

Thank you very much, Ms. Buckley.

We'll begin with our rounds of questioning.

First, for the New Democratic Party, Linda Duncan.

9:10 a.m.

NDP

Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Thank you.

Thank you for appearing and for your information.

The first thing I'd like to do is make a request. I've been through the website of Public Works and I've noticed that there are three reports that have been commissioned by Public Works: one by Bronson Consulting in 2006, one by Marbek Resource Consultants in October 2000, and one by Caneta Research Inc. in August 2001. I've prepared a list of those reports, and I would like to request that those be provided to us. I'll give the list to the clerk because I've typed out the names.

One of the things that I'm left confused by when I go through all the documents is that both Public Works and NRCan claim to have the mandate to be improving building efficiency, and overseeing, and focal points, yet when you drill down, it appears that neither entity is taking responsibility for the 40,000 federally owned buildings. That's one thing that I would appreciate some clarification on.

Connected to that, I appreciate the update on the FBI, and I understand it a bit more now. It seems to be the approach being taken in the private sector to an extent, where money is loaned, the retrofit is done, and then over time you pay it back in reduced energy costs. But there's a question I have. Both of the agencies could respond to this.

Public Works has only a little over 300 buildings and NRCan 222. That's out of 40,000 buildings. How is anyone to keep track of where the overall actions are being taken? Who actually is responsible for making sure that energy use is reduced? My target is.... I'm good that the target is the sustainable development act, to reduce greenhouse gases, but frankly, my interest is in reducing the federal government expenditures contributing to the deficit.

I'm interested in a response. There doesn't seem to be any central mandate for anybody to have the responsibility to be costing and making sure that the money is set aside in some way, short term or long term, to actually reduce energy costs by the federal government.

9:10 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Real Property Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services

John McBain

I'll start.

Thank you for the questions.

In response, first of all, as one of the parts of our presentation, we attached a slide with a pie chart of ownership to demonstrate where the custodians are in the federal government. One aspect of our presentation is to indicate that PWGSC—although the title suggests in some ways a broader role—is the custodian for our own assets. We do not have a central function within the government to provide direction, other than that which we aspire to do with colleagues. The policy centre for federal real property management is the Treasury Board of Canada. They set the federal policies that each custodian then is accountable to adhere to and to succeed at.

Deputy head accountability in the delivery of a program or the programs that we're responsible for is, to me, the essence of the leadership we provide. The deputy heads are accountable to balance the priorities and deal with restraint with regard to budget requirements and the condition of our assets in order to deliver our programs. For us, to achieve both environmentally sustainable practices and savings is core to our mandate, and we will do that for our particular portfolio. We strive to do that and enhance that over time.

As for the other custodians, I can't speak for them.

As Geoff mentioned, the inventory sounds daunting at just under 40,000 buildings, but anything with a footprint is included in that inventory, so there are some very small buildings that end up being a count. In my inventory, Place du Portage, phase IV, is 80,000 square metres, so that's close to 900,000 square feet. It's a very large building and makes up a big part of the inventory.

9:15 a.m.

NDP

Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Can I just get some clarification? I understand that the direction to all the departments and agencies is coming because of the sustainable development act, and it's to reduce the footprint. There was a whole new strategy, everything sort of seemed to stop, and then we spent a couple of years developing strategies. But here's my question: is there a directive—and if so, where is it coming from—for each of the departments and agencies to reduce the costs of their entity by reducing energy? Is there a directive on that as a cost saving?

9:15 a.m.

Caroline Weber Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Services and Strategic Policy Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services

I'll take that one, if I may, Mr. Chair.

There's not a directive to reduce costs per se. We all have a responsibility to reduce costs and manage them to the best of our ability. As John has already said, the Treasury Board Secretariat is responsible for giving us that direction. There is also the Federal Sustainable Development Act, as you mentioned. Environment Canada—the Minister of the Environment—is responsible for that legislation. There is currently in place the 2010-2013 federal sustainable development strategy. It did set a target for—

9:15 a.m.

NDP

Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

I understand that. I'm not interested in the greenhouse gas targets. I know that government-wide there's a lot of talk about trying to cut down on federal spending. My question is, does that direction to each of the entities here—and you can only speak if your entity is here—is there also a direction when you're looking for cost savings that you look to energy savings? Maybe what I'm getting between the lines is that there hasn't been. Maybe there has been from Treasury Board. I'm not sure.

9:15 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Services and Strategic Policy Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services

Caroline Weber

There isn't, but—

9:15 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

A brief response, please. You're well over the five minutes.

Go ahead, Ms. Weber.

9:15 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Services and Strategic Policy Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services

Caroline Weber

There isn't, although we are working—and NRCan can speak to this as well—to look at what cost-efficient changes departments can make. We had done some research recently with the National Research Council that was trying to look at the cost benefit for different kinds of changes within buildings. Some of the things that my colleague Geoff had mentioned already in terms of light savings and some of those operational efficiencies with buildings are also the ones that pay off the most. We are working together to identify the most cost-effective investments that we can make in conjunction with then also having these GHG targets.

9:15 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

Thank you very much.

For the Conservatives, Jacques Gourde.

Five minutes, please, Jacques.

9:15 a.m.

Conservative

Jacques Gourde Conservative Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I want to thank the witnesses for joining us this morning.

I was pleased to hear your presentation and to see that you have concrete objectives to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 17% by 2020.

In the strategy that has been presented and is proposed for future federal buildings and their repairs, do you have any examples where you have introduced or considered new technologies, such as geothermics and the replacement of heavy fuel oils with biomass in certain heating structures? Are there already some buildings with new technologies that could be used as examples for future projects?

9:15 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Real Property Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services

John McBain

Certainly the example I gave of the Jean Canfield Building in Charlottetown is a good example of innovative technologies. It uses the central atrium to move large volumes of air. It recovers heat from the exhaust of the building to then heat the building. It uses photovoltaic solar panels on the roof to provide electricity to the building. Overall we've reduced the footprint of the building because we do not have a heating or cooling plant in it. We use the Charlottetown district energy system to provide heating and cooling to the building. There are solar-operated shutters that provide shade and follow the sun. There are a number of innovative approaches in that building, which is in part why it achieved the LEED gold certification.

9:20 a.m.

Chief Scientist and Assistant Deputy Minister, Innovation and Energy Technology Sector, Department of Natural Resources

Geoff Munro

If I might add to John's response, I can give you another example as well. You may remember that NRCan was asked to move its materials technology laboratory from the Booth Street campus in a fairly old facility to a brand new one in Hamilton, on the campus of McMaster University in their Innovation Park. That building is on track to achieve a LEED platinum status. It jumps from gold to platinum because it does all the things that John's talking about in the example he gave, plus there are boreholes in the ground where heat and energy that is not needed in the summertime is stored and then drawn back up when it is required in colder weather.

We haven't gone long enough yet to confirm that this will be the case forever, but the early calculations indicate that the borehole storage will in fact do more than the building requires, and it will be able to actually help support the energy needs of the innovation complex at McMaster University. So there are a number of innovations associated with the kinds of buildings we're talking about that can be used as examples.

9:20 a.m.

Conservative

Jacques Gourde Conservative Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC

As you know, biomass is a renewable energy source that is in abundant supply in Canada. It could provide all Canadian forest producers with a new source of income.

Are there any buildings where this new source of renewable energy is being used? I think there are a few buildings that use that kind of energy in eastern Quebec. Could that technology win over major centres like Ottawa or other important cities?

9:20 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Real Property Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services

John McBain

Yes, it does have the potential. As you may be aware, Public Works operates seven heating and cooling plants in the national capital area that feed, amongst other things, the houses of Parliament and 55 buildings in downtown Ottawa.

We have recently completed two requests for information with the industry to consult on how best to upgrade and modernize these plants. Strictly speaking, from my point of view as the ADM accountable for the buildings, I need heating and cooling. I turn to the private sector to tell me the best way to provide it. We expect the private sector to come forward with innovative approaches and proposals, such as biomass, as the solution for us over the long term.

9:20 a.m.

Chief Scientist and Assistant Deputy Minister, Innovation and Energy Technology Sector, Department of Natural Resources

Geoff Munro

Perhaps I may add another component to that.

As you know, Natural Resources Canada is a science-based organization, and much of this is a journey of discovery. But we are working very closely with FPInnovations, the world's largest institute on forestry research, to look at, as you brought up, the idea of the forest sector being able to not only utilize the waste materials left behind but to in fact generate additional revenues in the pulp mills themselves.

The overarching term is “biorefinery”. We are working with them to figure out exactly what the chemical pathways are that will either take you to green chemistry possibilities or get the sugars out of the mix that would in no way depreciate the standard pulp and paper production but would generate the offshoot of other forms of revenue. That would translate into the ability to use the biomass. One of the byproducts of all of that can be and will be bioenergy as well.

How we mix that together is still part of the discovery that we're working on.

9:20 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

Jacques, thank you very much. Your time is up.

We have Denis Blanchette next, from the NDP.