Government Operations Committee on Oct. 2nd, 2012

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Okay. It would include Defence, for example?

[Caroline Weber]

Yes.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

This is a 17% reduction by 2020. What's the base year?

[Caroline Weber]

The base year is 2005.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

So we're more than halfway there, in time, 2005 to 2020. What have we achieved so far?

[Caroline Weber]

We're not quite halfway there. I think we're seven years into it, perhaps, and for our reporting purposes we're probably six years into it because it takes us that long to accumulate the information.

Departments need to report these numbers through their departmental performance reports that will be tabled this fall, so it's the first time we will be seeing some of those achievement numbers. Last year was the first year for reporting, and at that point departments were reporting their targets, but in terms of achievement, we're going to start seeing that this fall.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

So we don't have any numbers on achievement?

[Caroline Weber]

Not yet, but we're expecting them very soon as the departmental performance reports are tabled.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Okay.

I think my colleagues were trying to ask the question—and I don't think they got an answer—as to what you actually pick as the cost per year in terms of achieving these objectives. There must be some amount of dollars that the government spends in order to achieve these greenhouse gas reduction targets. I know that some of it comes from the private sector, but not all of it. Is there any way you can give us an estimate of how many dollars per year...?

[Caroline Weber]

The Federal Sustainable Development Act required that everything done under that legislation would not require any new money, so there was no funding put aside to achieve the targets under that legislation.

Departments are instructed to do this within their budgets, which again is why departments—as represented by my colleague John—don't have a particular line item for this. Consistent with reducing red tape, etc., and reducing webs of rules, we establish a high-level target, and departments then are asked to meet that target by implementing their own strategies, by figuring out how they can do it within their budget.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

So you can't give us a dollar cost? I mean, it must cost more money per year given that you're trying to reduce greenhouse gases than if you weren't. At least in upfront costs, I know there's a payback down the road, but initially there has to be some expenditure to achieve this. You can't give us an estimate of how much...?

The reason I'm asking this is that I think it's a good thing to know for its own sake, but I'm also interested to know whether the ongoing fiscal restraint is going to impact your achievement of this target. It does cost money up front to hit this target, and now there's less money. Is that going to impede your ability to achieve this target by 2020?

[John McBain]

From my perspective, there was a time when greening operations were more expensive than the conventional, but I believe that time has changed. It's very difficult to provide an upgrade to a building today, whether it's an HVAC system, a chiller, or some aspect of our operations, that does not have a green attribute to it.

In the past, you used to have to spend additional money to find something that had a green capacity. Now, as we do our building upgrades and our building improvements, by their very nature they help us achieve green targets and they do save us money. I can say that I don't have a specific pot dedicated to these targets, but I do spend clearly in every year an amount on initiatives that give me a greener plant, a greener operating environment.

To the last part of your question, austerity measures drive all of us to look hard at reducing our operating costs, and green is now a lower-cost option.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

Thank you, sir.

Ms. Weber would like to add something.

[Caroline Weber]

I wanted to elaborate on that with respect to our fleet, because in our department I'm responsible for the fleet as well. We were tracking fleet emissions. We were concerned about our targets and we were working to achieve them.

But it turns out that our fleet emissions are dropping because of changes in technology, so we're hitting our targets faster than we thought we would because the technology on this is changing. It's very much consistent with the answer you just received from my colleague.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

Did you have something to add, Mr. Munro?

[Geoff Munro]

Yes, very quickly.

First of all, thank you for catching the mistake on slides 3 and 4. The actual target is listed at the top of slide 2, which does confirm the 2020 target. I don't know how the 2017 slipped into those other two, and I thank you for catching it.

On your emission reduction question, I can report that our low carbon initiative has generated a 6.3% emission reduction from the reference level of 2005-06. But the important point is that it's a 5.3% reduction from last year. It's building momentum. It takes that upfront effort to get the momentum going.

In answer to your last question, do we think we'll make the target? Yes.

[John McCallum, Liberal, Markham—Unionville, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

Thank you, John.

Thank you, Mr. Munro.

Next, for the Conservatives, is Peter Braid.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much to our officials for being here this morning and for some excellent presentations.

I want to start by perhaps clarifying some earlier misconceptions through some previous questions. We have a lot of moving parts in terms of various programs that encourage energy efficiency across the federal government. Is it fair to say, is it accurate to say, that it's the Federal Sustainable Development Act and strategy that's the overarching policy or directive?

[Caroline Weber]

I would agree with that. I'm not sure if my colleagues at Treasury Board Secretariat would—

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

They're not here this morning.

[Caroline Weber]

—because we need to recognize their responsibility as well. But yes, I think we have, through that legislation, provided direction to the major departments in terms of who is emitting and where the impacts might be within the Government of Canada.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

Okay, great.

Are the goals, which must be met, clear in the strategy and the act?

[Caroline Weber]

They're very clear. We're responsible, at Public Works and Government Services, for consulting across the Government of Canada with other departments to make sure everyone fully understands. We provide guidance documents as well.

While deputy heads remain responsible for achieving those targets, we are helping them understand and implement the targets with whatever implementation strategies they choose. So yes, they are clear, they're clearly articulated, and they need to be reported in everyone's RPP in terms of reporting on the goals, and then also in the DPRs in terms of reporting on the performance and whether or not those goals and targets have been achieved.

[Peter Braid, Conservative, Kitchener—Waterloo, ON]

As lead department, you intend to ensure these goals are met by 2020. I think I've heard that this morning.