Government Operations Committee on Feb. 26th, 2013

[Alex Lakroni]

They are employed by us, but this capacity was funded in the past on an irregular basis, so the capacity was not stable. We have the capacity based on funds available from our vote 1.

What we are doing here is stabilizing the audit capacity to make sure these auditors are there to serve and allow our ministry to continue to use its contractual rights to conduct audits. Otherwise we don't want to be exposed to being overcharged, if that happens. This is being done by other countries such as the U.S., etc. It is exercising the oversight that ought to be done on our contracting and the payment by our suppliers.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

You're hiring additional, new internal auditors.

[Alex Lakroni]

It's a mix of both. Basically we are looking at 30 auditors, having a capacity of plus or minus 30 auditors, who only do audits on procurements. This is different from what you referred to on page 33, which is the audit for internal matters of PWGSC, which is the normal audit function you will find in any department. That function, the work of those audits, is being looked at by the deputy minister, advised by an internal audit committee. There is thorough governance in PWGSC to follow on those audits.

As for the F-35, this is not necessarily related to the audits of the F-35. This is for the audits of our procurements.

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Okay, thanks.

Our committee is about to undertake a review of energy efficiency in federal buildings.

I'm wondering if you could tell me where I would find the expenditure if Public Works has undertaken that they are going to have more energy efficient buildings. I don't see any line item there, and as I understand there hasn't been any work done yet, I would have anticipated it would be in the supplementary (C)s.

[John McBain, Assistant Deputy Minister, Real Property Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services]

Thank you for the question.

There isn't a specific line item dedicated to that in these estimates. It is included in the special purpose allotment that real property branch obtains to fund our buildings. It is reflected in things such as our rent payments.

We have new buildings coming on line that are the result of new leases being signed that will be LEED gold. Through the procurement process and the requirements that the crown stipulates in terms of our tendering process, we require more energy efficient and greener buildings.

In addition, the SPA includes money in our repairs to enhance and improve—

[Linda Duncan, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

If there's any breakdown you can give to me, I'd appreciate receiving it to help our review.

Thanks.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Peter Braid]

Thank you, Madam Duncan.

Mr. Gourde, go ahead for five minutes.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank the witnesses for their statements and their presence here today. Your presentations were very informative.

I have a couple of questions about page 5.

Over the past few years, we've asked a lot of questions about the strategic restructuring plans and employees. I see that the placement rates are high. Were these employees placed in the public service or elsewhere? Do you have more information on that?

[Alex Lakroni]

Thank you for your question.

As you know, Public Works and Government Services Canada is regarded as a leader when it comes to managing its workforce. We've been successfully placing employees since the strategic review. Other departments look to some of the practices we've put in place as the standard to follow.

We've set up a very strong governance system that includes planning and employee monitoring. And we've incorporated it into the strategic review, the operational review following the strategic review and the client revenue adjustments that happened in June.

We established a placement unit solely to help place affected employees. Every assistant deputy minister has personally committed to making sure that affected employees in their respective organizations are placed. Each of them is required to prepare a plan for the integration of employees from other organizations. In addition, we have excellent relationships with the unions, and they are very satisfied with the progress made so far.

Allow me to share a few figures. As of January 31, 2013, we had 13,172 employees, so we've seen a 5% drop since the end of March 2007. Our attrition rate is about 8%, or roughly 1,000 employees a year.

Under the strategic review, we had 381 affected employees for the first two years, and of those, we've managed to place 96%—so 364 employees out of 381—either internally or within the public service.

Under the operational review, 140 out of 163 employees were affected because 23 positions were vacant. Of those 140 people, 129 have already been placed, resulting in a placement rate of 92%.

So in all, 803 people were affected and 699 were placed. That puts the placement rate at 87%, which is pretty impressive given that we're in the first two years.

That pretty well covers the efforts our department is making. The numbers speak for themselves.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

At the department, is the number of employees who are retiring higher than the number of those who have left? In other words, is the department going to hire a new generation of employees? Of course, priority will be given to those who have already worked within the public service when it comes to filling those positions. But in what year will things start to open up? Are there any openings this year for a new generation of people who have gone to school and are looking to join the public service? What are the placement opportunities?

[Alex Lakroni]

The department isn't looking to stop hiring new public servants. That isn't our goal. Our goal is to recruit people so we can position ourselves going forward, in other words, recruit talent that will help the department fulfill its responsibilities. So there is room for young people, for students and for new public servants, and that is true in a wide variety of programs.

However, overall, the department has committed to meeting its financial and human resources objectives for the next three to seven years.

In short, I would say, yes, there is room for young people and students.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

Thank you, Mr. Lakroni.

We have to move along.

Next is Denis Blanchette.

[Denis Blanchette, NDP, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses.

My first question has to do with the internal reallocation of resources for capital requirements related to information technology infrastructure. Supplementary estimates (C) earmark $11 million to that program further to the creation of Shared Services Canada. I'd like to know what that's for exactly.

[Alex Lakroni]

When Shared Services Canada was created, a calculation was done, a government-wide formula was used. Funds were transferred to cover three aspects, all related to technology infrastructure. The first was everything having to do with telecommunications. The second was everything involving data centres. And the third was everything related to email.

The calculation was done for Public Works and Government Services Canada, and we determined that $113 million had to be transferred. As the numbers were being finalized, however, we realized a few things.

First off, some services were going to be delivered to us on a cost-recovery basis. For instance, Service Canada would provide us with computer support on an optional basis.

But the amount transferred includes two types of expenditures that are being returned to us, and that is the reason for the transfer. First, they are expenditures that were counted but that will be spent in only one year. So they aren't ongoing expenditures. For example, some expenditures are related to the management of the modernization project, which is a project that will be phased out gradually. It's not an ongoing transfer. So that money comes back to us and represents $3.8 million.

Another amount is allocated to MERX, the procurement system. That system does not fall under Shared Services Canada's mandate. So $3.4 million was returned to us for that system.

Lastly, there is $4 million for the service clusters. Public Works and Government Services Canada delivers services to small and medium-sized departments to support technologies such as PeopleSoft and SAP. And $4 million was transferred for that. The amount was returned to us so we could continue to deliver services.

Basically, a readjustment of initial transfers was done.

[Denis Blanchette, NDP, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Okay.

You mentioned PeopleSoft. That brings me to my next topic.

I want to talk about payroll services. I see that various amounts were allocated a bit all over the place in supplementary estimates (C). I identified at least three different spots. I'd like you to tell me where things stand with that project. I'd like to understand where it's at. These are fairly big amounts we're talking about, and I believe things are still in the pilot project phase.

Could you give me an update on the pay system and tell me where it's going?

[Alex Lakroni]

I'm going to ask my colleague Brigitte Fortin to take that question.

[Brigitte Fortin, Acting Assistant Deputy Minister, Accounting, Banking and Compensation Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services]

Thank you very much.

The transformation of pay administration initiative comprises two projects: modernization and the consolidation of pay services for various departments in a new pay centre located in Miramichi, New Brunswick.

We are currently requesting through this exercise $23 million for the pay administration project. The pay administration project is the replacement of the old pay system and the implementation of new business processes. The $23 million is to complete the definition phase of the project. The definition phase of the project was to design the IT architecture finalizing the project plan, the detailed costing, buying some IT equipment to prepare for the development, and to pay for the project team. A sum of $4.7 million is required to complete the definition phase.

[Denis Blanchette, NDP, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Ms. Fortin, since we won't have time to go over everything, I would appreciate it very much if you could send us some sort of transformation update, to give us an idea of where the initiative is headed and what's left to do. No doubt we'll be discussing this a number of times going forward.

You talked about the first component and the amounts involved. But could you quickly talk about the second?

[Brigitte Fortin]

You mean—

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

Madame Fortin, could you be very brief as we're well over the five minutes allowed for Mr. Blanchette's questions. A 30-second response if you can....

[Brigitte Fortin]

We are currently implementing the consolidation project. We currently have 146 employees already in the Miramichi who have started delivering pay services to 12 federal organizations. We will continue consolidating pay services over the next four years.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

Thank you, Madame Fortin.

That's all the time we have.

Next is Kelly Block. I understand Kelly may share some of her time with Mr. Aspin.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I will be sharing my time with my colleague.

I want to thank our guests for joining us today. It's always good to meet with you and to ask some questions around the estimates that you've provided to us. I also appreciate having reviewed your RPPs. Just looking at your role and mandate, it certainly is broad. There are a lot of things that you need to provide an oversight for.

I want to take the opportunity to congratulate you for once again receiving the award as one of the top employers in the national capital region.

Congratulations on that award.

[Alex Lakroni]

Thank you.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

I want to talk a little bit about something that you mentioned in your opening statement with regard to the $32.5 million that you are seeking to deliver a series of projects on various engineering assets.

I have a couple of questions.

How many infrastructure projects does PWGSC intend to repair or rehabilitate with these particular funds?