Evidence of meeting #11 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was transformation.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:05 p.m.
Chief Operating Officer, Shared Services Canada
It's more efficient, more effective, a better cost savings.
A quick answer. That's what I was asked for.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
Thank you very much. I appreciate that very much.
Mr. Whalen, for seven minutes, please.
May 5th, 2016 / 4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
Thank you for coming and thanks for the invite for a tour. I'm sure everyone on this side of the table anyway would be very interested in doing that. I see some nods around the room about the desire to get some hands-on knowledge of how the data centre project is proceeding.
Our government is interested in delivering on our commitments to Canadians, including the ones with respect to a government that's advanced in technology and delivers the services that Canadians expect, but we found that large projects need to be broken down into smaller pieces in order to be able to achieve that reliably.
When I look at some of the things we've been talking about today, I've really been focusing on whether or not there has been appropriate planning of the $6 billion or $7 billion that has already been spent through your organization. I'm wondering, if Treasury Board has a strategic plan in place for IT, shouldn't Shared Services Canada also have had a strategic plan in place for delivering on the project?
4:05 p.m.
President, Shared Services Canada
Shared Services has had a plan. It's been called the transformation plan. That plan was finalized by a government committee, and then it has been reported on twice since then, once in 2013 and once in 2015. That overall plan included the strategy for acquiring the email system, how to go at the data centres, and the rollout of the networks.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
John mentioned earlier about things having to change over 20 years. Would you have done anything differently in your plan to ensure that it would have been effective over a four-year time frame?
4:05 p.m.
President, Shared Services Canada
I think that goes back to one of the points that I made earlier, in terms of knowing what you're starting with, with more solidity, the benchmarking, and also investing up front in the tools, the processes, the training, to really jumpstart the exercise. That often occurs in these types of projects, and if it doesn't, then it's potentially going to stretch over a longer period of time. You need to allow for that. As I said, it's a trade-off between budget, time, and scope.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
The Auditor General doesn't seem to be happy about a number of those aspects of it.
Are you looking at a total reboot or a partial reboot? How do we get Shared Services Canada into a situation where it can deliver reliably on the project and the expectations of Canadians in the near term?
4:05 p.m.
President, Shared Services Canada
I'd say we're looking at a partial reboot of the plan. We're going back and looking at all the assumptions, including the timing assumptions. How long does it take to do the procurement? How long will it take for our partners to be ready to move to data centres? What changes do we need to make to make it easier for them to move to the data centres? We're bringing significant change there.
That's why I say it's a complex trade-off between not just the funding and the time, but there's also the scope. And how you do it makes a difference as well.
4:05 p.m.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
Yes, I would see that this type of project requires buy-in, and without the trust of your partners, and also a good relationship with your vendors.... I don't think anyone expects Shared Services Canada to deliver on this alone, but it needs to have appropriate relationships with its outside vendors in order to deliver successfully on the projects. I've been hearing a lot about the project management vis-à-vis outside vendors, and whether or not something could be done there, whether the procurement that was done initially on these projects contained the right types of management systems in the contract, and oversight, so that your department was able to effectively manage these contracts.
What are your thoughts on that?
4:10 p.m.
President, Shared Services Canada
We're managing the contracts very carefully and we're very focused on obtaining the functionality that was specified in the contracts, and we're looking to the vendors to provide those services—
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
Do you have some examples in which milestones have not been met and Shared Services Canada has enforced upon breached milestones?
4:10 p.m.
President, Shared Services Canada
One example would be the email contract. As I said, it was supposed to be completed back in March 2015. As a result of that breach, service credits have accumulated to the favour of the Government of Canada. That's an example.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
If you had something to do differently from the outset, Mr. Parker, what is something that you would have done differently?
4:10 p.m.
President, Shared Services Canada
I would have allowed more time for planning at the outset, I would have looked at the procurement timelines, and I would have invested up front in terms of the people and the processes—the tools—to enable the client services that you're talking about, so that you continue to meet the standards your customers are looking for and maintain the confidence of your customers through the period of transformation so that you have buy-in, you have that confidence, and you're working together throughout the whole period.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
Can you put a dollar figure on how much you feel the process was underfunded by at the outset?
4:10 p.m.
President, Shared Services Canada
I can't put a dollar figure on it. I think you'd have to go back and do quite a bit of work to figure that out.
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
As you're working through a new strategic plan to deliver going forward, how much more expensive is the new plan compared with the old plan?
4:10 p.m.
President, Shared Services Canada
I don't know that yet, in terms of pulling it all together. That's one of the things that we're also going to be looking to the external experts to validate.
We've looked at the assumptions, we're pulling the plan together, but I haven't seen how this adds up financially yet. It's something I would want to discuss with the minister, as well.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
We'll cut it off now. Thank you.
Mr. McCauley, you may have five minutes, please.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Welcome, gentlemen.
Just quickly, here are some simple ones. You mentioned you have three of the five data centres complete. I think we were consolidating 450 into those five new ones. How many are left? Is it proportional, as in 200 left, and when will it be done?
4:10 p.m.
President, Shared Services Canada
No. There are more than 500 data centres. The slide said there were 60 closed. More recently the numbers add up to about 80 data centres that have actually closed out of more than 500.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
4:10 p.m.
President, Shared Services Canada
We've established three of the enterprise data centres.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
