Evidence of meeting #132 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was phoenix.
A video is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Based on the timeline, right now, what is the gap going to be, and how many job losses will we be looking at?
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I don't have those numbers in front of me.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
The one thing that we're all very focused on is minimizing this. We know it happens everywhere in the world when there's a yard.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Exactly, but shouldn't we know this information? This is going to cost taxpayers billions, as identified by the PBO in his report on the CSC.
We've known about it for a couple of years. Shouldn't we know what our costs are going to be, as well as potential layoffs? The same goes for Irving. I'm quite stunned that we're just looking at options and we don't appear to have a plan.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Sorry if we made you understand that. There is a lot of work going on. There is a lot of external expertise being hired, too. We are looking at all the different options, because there are many things that influence a gap. How do these things play out?
Our objective is to minimize the gaps. Everybody is working towards that right now.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
What's the gap going to be in Seaspan? I would think they're the closest.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
We're quite hopeful we can minimize it substantially with this step. That's the work that is going on right now.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
These are people's lives. What is “minimize” to them, only 100 lives destroyed by layoffs?
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
That's the active work with the yard right now, to finalize that, so that we have that.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
I don't want to be rude, but it doesn't sound as though you know how many lives are going to be affected or how many tax dollars are going to get wasted, so to speak, because we haven't closed the gap. Do we have that? Have we done a report?
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
We have input from a number of external parties so that we can actually make the right decision.
We're not doing this in isolation; we're doing it with all the departments that are involved and the yards. It's a common objective. Everybody is focused on the same thing. It's not en vase clos du tout.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Do you have a backup plan if the gap is a year and half as has been reported? For both Irving and Seaspan, do we have a plan besides that you're looking at it? This is coming up really quickly.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Yes, it is.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Yes, we're actively working on this. There are questions around the number of layoffs, for example, which is being looked at right now. As well, as we talked about before, on the CSC, we'll be making sure that it moves according to schedule.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Can we get a confirmation that you will make sure the RFP is provided to the PBO, as well as all the costing information for the CSC?
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Let us look at why it wasn't. I'd like to go back and understand why, if it hasn't, because this is the first—
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
If the PBO has enough clearance to go to the States to get full access to the Arleigh Burke frigates, surely you would think the government would allow—
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
We'll get back to you on that, okay?
Conservative
Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB
Well, we'll see if we can get through this in one minute.
I want to know about the carbon tax. “Strong, Secure, Engaged” is a 20-year plan. How does your planning include the full costing of the carbon tax to your military suppliers? This is a new cost that will change the cost of many products and services and goods. Have you accounted for that in—
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
The Department of National Defence does all the costing in “Strong, Secure, Engaged”. They're responsible for doing the full life-cycle costing of those. I'm not sure if they've included it in that or not. That's in the Department of National Defence.
Conservative
Pat Kelly Conservative Calgary Rocky Ridge, AB
Okay, but in a project, when they say you are to procure, then that's their responsibility to take that into account in the costing.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
They do the full costing of those projects, including the life-cycle cost. That would be more in the realm of when you start operating and maintaining a piece of equipment, which is their responsibility.
Conservative
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
Thank you very much.
The witnesses are welcome to stay, or they can be excused, as we are doing the votes.
Yes, Mr. Garrison.