Evidence of meeting #132 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was phoenix.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Les Linklater  Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Marty Muldoon  Chief Financial Officer, Finance and Administration Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Michael Vandergrift  Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Marie Lemay  Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Ron Parker  President, Shared Services Canada

12:25 p.m.

NDP

Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC

As a parliamentarian, I have a problem with accountability there. If you can't tell me about gender-based analysis or meeting official language requirements at this point, I still have to vote at some point on a billion dollars of its spending, and I can't be assured that those things have been done.

12:25 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services

Marie Lemay

On those two. if we want to access the money we'll have to do it. I don't know if that reassures you but that's part of what we have to do to be able to access some of that money.

12:25 p.m.

NDP

Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC

But I guess certain basic things—I'm defence critic and we go through it in Defence—what is the split between capital spending and operating spending and those kinds of things? How do we know what's going on with the items listed in that billion dollars worth of spending?

12:25 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services

Marie Lemay

I don't know, Marty, if you want to add something or maybe Ron.

12:25 p.m.

Chief Financial Officer, Finance and Administration Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services

Marty Muldoon

We are in that transitionary year. You know that the process is changing so in the future budget items would have been secured and available to be added to the main estimates before we appear at this meeting with you before this committee. We will get there, but this is the awkward transitionary year where not everything has been completely lined up. Maybe it's not the best of answers. At the end of the day, when we go through the supplementary estimates process to follow later in the year, these items won't be tabled in the standard way as you would have seen before. They will be published, nonetheless, in our supplementary estimates as dollars coming to the department. Certainly, that would be an opportunity where we can have a much more fulsome dialogue.

To the questions that were asked earlier, it's impossible for us to presume Parliament will approve them exactly the way we have thought about them. We can't publish them in our plans. We obviously have a very solid idea of what we were thinking and what we need them for. At some point, once we've refined those plans and they have been accepted by the Treasury Board, then we will have that planning detail to be able to have a fulsome dialogue here at this committee.

12:25 p.m.

NDP

Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC

Each dollar of that billion will come back as supplementary estimates. That's what you are promising.

12:30 p.m.

Chief Financial Officer, Finance and Administration Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services

Marty Muldoon

In a different way than normal. Normally we would have come here, and it would have been an estimate by vote. But that vote is happening now on the Treasury Board P3 where you see the million dollars. When we return you'll see it as a printed item not to be voted on in the supplementary estimates, but it doesn't mean we couldn't talk about them.

12:30 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services

Marie Lemay

We'll be able to give you much more detail on them at that point.

12:30 p.m.

NDP

Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC

We're back to my initial problem with this. At this point, should a committee decide not to approve something in there, it's already approved before we can ask any questions about it. That's what you're telling us. It's not coming back in supplementary estimates.

12:30 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services

Marie Lemay

It's coming back for discussion because you'll see it.

12:30 p.m.

NDP

Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC

It doesn't matter what we think as parliamentarians at that point because—

12:30 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services

Marie Lemay

I think again, as Marty said, the important thing is the transition year and trying to align.... I don't know, Ron, if you want to add anything from SSC's point of view.

12:30 p.m.

President, Shared Services Canada

Ron Parker

The investments that are reflected there for Shared Services Canada are very much aligned with the descriptions in our departmental plan around the major activities.

12:30 p.m.

NDP

Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC

But that's still problematic for accountability in Parliament. If we can only ask questions after we have approved things it doesn't have any impact. It's taking for granted the role that certainly this committee would have in providing some supervision over spending. It's writing that off this year.

12:30 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services

Marie Lemay

If that's helpful we can give you the high-level discussion, if you want, to go through the items.

12:30 p.m.

NDP

Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC

The high-level discussion, but if I want to ask questions about gender-based analysis and official languages—those are my two I would ask you lots of questions about—I can't do that.

12:30 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services

Marie Lemay

Again, we have to do those things so we will.

12:30 p.m.

NDP

Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC

You understand that I'm not trying to badger you as public servants. As a parliamentarian, before I vote to approve a billion dollars, I would like to hear about the gender-based analysis of those items, and I would like to hear about the official language impacts before I vote. You're telling me that this year I don't get to do that.

12:30 p.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services

Marie Lemay

The only thing I could tell you that maybe can help you is that you probably noticed there is much more detail in the budget numbers than there would have been in the past in explaining what those items are. My understanding, again, is that maybe the question would be better answered by Treasury Board but I think the idea was to try, because of this transition year, to give as much as possible in the budget portion so you would have a good idea of what these monies would be used for.

12:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

You have about 40 seconds.

12:30 p.m.

NDP

Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC

One of the things I would have asked, for instance, in Shared Services is about the population census and some of the ways you ask questions that would impact on gender: transgendered people, the LGBT population. I would ask you questions about that, and you haven't done that analysis so I can do that today.

12:30 p.m.

President, Shared Services Canada

Ron Parker

Our piece of that puzzle is to provide the IT infrastructure that supports the computation and storage done by Statistics Canada. Those questions should go to Statistics Canada—

12:30 p.m.

NDP

Randall Garrison NDP Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, BC

Fair enough.

12:30 p.m.

President, Shared Services Canada

Ron Parker

—the agency responsible for the questions.

12:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Vice-Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi

Thank you very much.

We'll now go to Mr. Ayoub, for seven minutes.