I would say that in something like the Phoenix situation it is particularly difficult to address that question, because the problems touch so many people and have affected so many people.
As the deputy said, I'm sure that the people involved in the project didn't intend it to turn out this way, but I think we saw two problems in the course of our audit. One was that it was not clear, right from the very beginning, who was going to be accountable and responsible. The other part of it was, and you see part of the consequences of it today, the churn—for example, at the deputy minister level. The number of different people who served in the role as deputy minister makes it hard. Even the individual who was in place at the time of the decision had only been in that role for about a year. I think this makes it difficult to identify somebody as accountable.
That's why in my message I indicate that, either by design or by accident, it almost seems as though Phoenix was set up in such a way as not to have somebody who was specifically accountable or responsible. A lot of it was that in the beginning it was not identified who was going to be accountable, and then there was so much turnover at the deputy minister level that it makes it hard to assign accountability.