Government Operations Committee on Nov. 1st, 2018

[Scott Brison]

There are a couple of things on this.

One is the fact that we're updating this information on a monthly basis, so it's being updated in real time, accessible to parliamentarians.

With this level of granularity, I'll just give you the example in terms of CRA:

This funding will be used to increase capacity to enhance GST/HST compliance activities and to address tax obligations of non-residents on rental income earned in Canada. Up to 170 full-time equivalents are planned to be renewed or hired over the next five years. These initiatives are expected to generate roughly 70 million dollars in federal revenue each year.

That's the level of granularity for one unit. I'm using that as an example. I can provide you with that.

I may ask Brian to also speak to this as somebody who has been extremely involved and has played a leadership role in this, but in terms of parliamentarians having the opportunity to follow government spending and the results of that government spending, this is unprecedented.

Brian, would you like to speak to this?

[Brian Pagan]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Mr. MacGregor.

As the minister noted, the intention of vote 40 was to provide more and better information to parliamentarians so that they understood how the budget was being implemented. We had a budget delivered by the Department of Finance at the end of February, and the main estimates, delivered April 16, were the first opportunity to present budget requirements to Parliament.

We did that in the form of vote 40 with the detailed annex and, as a result of exchanges at this committee, we undertook to update that information monthly. There have been seven updates, and I would suggest to the committee that presenting that information on a monthly basis is an advance over the minister and I appearing here on November 1.

This is the first time we've been back to talk about estimates requirements. In the meantime, there have been updates on June 5, July 9, August 10, September 11, October 12 and October 31. As the minister said, it's a level of detail that is designed very much to inform parliamentarians and Canadians on the progress that the department is making.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

Thank you for that.

Minister, can you guarantee that all of the $7 billion that was approved is going to be allocated before this fiscal cycle ends and before we see the next main estimates?

It's a yes or no question. Can you guarantee that all of the $7 billion will be spent before the next main estimates?

[Brian Pagan]

Thank you, Mr. MacGregor.

[Alistair MacGregor, NDP, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

If the minister could answer, would that be okay?

[Scott Brison]

I'd like Brian's input on this.

[Brian Pagan]

Estimates provide up-to amount authority. With this vote, we have the ability to allocate up to $7 billion, if departments come forward with their submissions.

At this time, we are approaching halfway in terms of allocations of that vote, and we will continue to update parliamentarians and Canadians monthly on our progress. Anything that is not allocated means that the department did not come forward with a TB submission. It could be because they are involved in contract negotiations or developing the parameters of a program with their partners.

If it is not accessed through the estimates this year—and this was a commitment we made back in the spring—it reverts to the fiscal framework. The Department of Finance will then re-profile that money into a future year, and it will be drawn down in subsequent estimates exercises. Anything that is not accessed this year, and that we know won't be accessed, will be highlighted to Parliament in our final supplementaries of the year.

Those amounts will be frozen. They won't be available for allocation. They'll be drawn down in future years, and we will tag those in future estimates documents as a budget 2018 commitment.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

Madame Mendès, you have seven minutes, please.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, and all of you, for coming today.

I have two questions, Minister, and I'll ask both at the same time so that you have ample time to answer them.

One of them is more general, and it goes back to when you were last here and we talked about the estimates reform. Some people were waiting to see if you would really publish the monthly updates, which we've heard are being published. You also have the sources for what this budget implementation vote has been dedicated to. I want to give you an opportunity to expand on that.

My second question is much more specific to my constituency. It's about the new Champlain Bridge and the $291.8 million that was provided in the budget for the office of Infrastructure Canada. I'd like to know how those monies are meant to be spent on the new Champlain Bridge. Is that outside of the planned budget, or is it within the planned budget? I would appreciate it, because it touches very specifically on my constituency. Thank you very much.

[Scott Brison]

First of all, on the estimates reform and the amount of detail we are now providing to parliamentarians in real time, again, any parliamentarian can verify the sources and uses of the budget implementation vote by department on an ongoing basis. We're providing a level of detail and explanation that is really important in terms of parliamentarians doing their jobs.

In terms of the sequencing, it was asinine, in many ways, in the past to have the main estimates before the budget. The sequencing change we have made actually aligns the budget and estimates in a way that is much more meaningful. In the past, what would happen is that once the budget came in, the relevance or pertinence of the main estimates was largely eliminated. All of the work parliamentarians did on the main estimates was really not as meaningful as it ought to have been.

It will take time, both within Parliament and within departments. The work between Finance and Treasury Board and with departments is actually seeing results now. Over time, I think, we'll see a much more integrated approach to both the budgeting process and the estimates process. You'll see a lot more work around—

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC]

I'm sorry to interrupt, Minister, but if I and others understand this correctly, vote 40 was meant to be a transition vote until we got to the new process fully.

[Scott Brison]

Certainly, it was important in terms of this year—the first year we do this—but again, there has been no diminution of reportage or detail or accountability to Parliament. On the contrary, in fact; it has seen an increased level of detail provided to parliamentarians and to Canadians.

In terms of the Champlain Bridge and some of the initiatives, there was an amount of $291.8 million for the Champlain Bridge corridor project. This is important, as you have referenced, to your riding, but it's also important to Canada. With 40 million to 50 million vehicles and 11 million public transit commuters every year, it is one of the busiest bridges in Canada. It also facilitates $20 billion annually in international trade. This is an important investment.

Part of that is working through the P3 Canada Fund, a Crown corporation mandated to promote the adoption of a public-private partnership model across Canada at the time. This investment will be very important to the economy of Montreal, the economy of Quebec, but also the Canadian economy and the quality of life of Montrealers and all Canadians.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC]

But this specific fund, was it just part of the overall budget? I'm wondering if it was just one portion of it, allocated in the lining of this specific budget, or if it was added in the budget for the overall project.

[Scott Brison]

Brian may want to add something on that.

[Brian Pagan]

There are two elements to the amounts being brought forward for the Champlain Bridge in the supplementary estimates (A). The first is a settlement agreement that was announced by the Government of Canada back in April as a result of negotiations with the builder of the bridge, Signature on the Saint Lawrence, to cover the transport of particularly large pieces of steel and bridge structure. There was an agreement on a way forward for that. Then there was an agreement to accelerate some of the work. As a result of that, some additional costs were incurred. So that formed a portion of the monies sought through these supplementary estimates (A).

The other portion of the amounts in these supplementaries is the re-profiling that I mentioned earlier. Every large project such as this will have a contingency reserve, monies that are available should there be changes in foreign exchange, in inflation, in the value of our dollar, etc. To this point, those funds have not been utilized for the project, but they're available. They were re-profiled from previous years when they were in the estimates into this fiscal year. They exist to enable the close out of the project.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you.

Colleagues, I should have mentioned at the outset of the meeting that Minister Brison is with us for this first hour. We have approximately 20 minutes left, which should get us to the end of our first round of questioning.

With that, we'll move on to Monsieur Deltell.

You have the floor for five minutes.

[Gérard Deltell, Louis-Saint-Laurent, CPC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Your French is improving by leaps and bounds.

Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Brison, welcome to the committee.

Mr. Brison, on October 16, 2018, you said you were doing your job. We are glad to hear that, because we are here to do our job.

Now I would like to know the following. On November 19, 2015, you unilaterally halted Project Resolve to analyze it and do your job, as you said. Is that the only time you “did your job” by halting a project to analyze it, as you did with Project Resolve?

[Scott Brison]

Mr. Chair and Mr. Deltell, I will not violate cabinet confidences, but I have said that, on an ongoing basis, my responsibility as Treasury Board president involves expenditure management, playing a challenge role, ensuring the integrity of government procurement practices—

[Gérard Deltell]

Mr. Brison, I am not asking you...

[Scott Brison]

It's not unique to one cabinet committee or another. That is my job. It is actually the job of the secretariat at the public service level, and we work with other departments and agencies to do that.

[Gérard Deltell]

You commented publicly on this project. My specific question is whether you stopped other projects to do your duty and analyze them. Yes or no.

If you did, I am not asking you which projects, but I would like to know whether you did or did not become involved in other projects as you did with Project Resolve.

[Scott Brison]

I have already said, Mr. Chair, that our government inherited a contract worth $670 million that was a sole-source contract.

[Gérard Deltell]

And you did your job on that.

My question is crystal clear: Did you do your job on other projects—

[Scott Brison]

Mr. Deltell, I do my job on an ongoing basis at cabinet committees, as President of the Treasury Board but also as a member of cabinet. It's something that we all take very seriously on an ongoing basis—

[Gérard Deltell]

Okay, since you take this seriously...