Evidence of meeting #158 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was system.
A video is available from Parliament.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
In terms of pay issues where there's a problem that would require a resolution at some point, how many new cases do you see in a month?
Associate Deputy Minister, Human Resources-to-Pay Stabilization, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I would say that the backlog represents a significant number of outstanding pay issues, and as we're working through that, the complexity comes to light.
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
What I've heard from public sector unions is that, notwithstanding whatever is already in the backlog, there are new pay issues that need resolution, and not just because somebody is going on leave and Phoenix has flagged it, but because there's a case of overpayment or underpayment.
In terms of problematic pay transactions that will find their way to the backlog if they're not addressed immediately, how many new cases do you see in a month?
Associate Deputy Minister, Human Resources-to-Pay Stabilization, Department of Public Works and Government Services
With any large system on the scale of the pay system, it's not unexpected to see errors arise.
When we see issues that result in an outcome that is not foreseen, that would generate what we call an incident report. That is then immediately dealt with to address the issue in the system, and then remedial action would be taken on the file.
NDP
Associate Deputy Minister, Human Resources-to-Pay Stabilization, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I would say at this point that we have about 1,000 outstanding incident requests that relate to some sort of issue that has come up in the system.
In terms of parsing the number of transactions that relate to an error as opposed to a delay in processing, I don't have those figures.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
If somebody from the public sector union is listening today—somebody who is dealing with their members on a monthly issue where they're saying they got overpaid or underpaid—and they hear it's about 1,000 new cases a month, do you think they're going to feel like that's the right answer?
Associate Deputy Minister, Human Resources-to-Pay Stabilization, Department of Public Works and Government Services
That's the number of incident reports that we have. The number of cases could be much higher. If there are processing issues—if a file isn't loaded, if we have a technical glitch or a network outage—the number in any given pay period could be higher.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
From what I've heard, 1,000 certainly sounds low to me.
I'm wondering if I'm not using the proper term of art to elicit the appropriate answer. I feel like we might be two ships passing in the night right now, and I'm trying not to be—
Associate Deputy Minister, Human Resources-to-Pay Stabilization, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I think the terminology would relate to whether there was an error in the pay, or whether there was a delay in processing a transaction that has an impact on pay.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
What does that difference mean if I'm working for the public sector in terms of whether I'm getting paid properly or not? Whether it was an error or a delay, what does that mean for me when I get paid? Am I seeing what I should be seeing on my cheque, or is there a problem?
That's what I'm trying to get at.
Associate Deputy Minister, Human Resources-to-Pay Stabilization, Department of Public Works and Government Services
If there is a delay, it doesn't necessarily mean there's a problem. If there is something like an overpayment, clearly that is a problem, and there are processes to deal with those.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
You're telling me that this would be in the order of about 1,000 new cases a month.
Associate Deputy Minister, Human Resources-to-Pay Stabilization, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I would say that this relates to the number of incident reports; the number of cases could be higher.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
All right, I'm going to be honest. I'm not exactly sure what that means, which is unfortunate.
I want to know, from the perspective of people getting paid, when they see their cheque, does it look right to them or not? I'd like to know how many people a month are having the experience that it doesn't look right.
I'm not sure how to navigate your terms to get that answer. If you could help me, that would be great. If you're going to reiterate what you've said already, I can move on. I'm looking to you for direction.
Associate Deputy Minister, Human Resources-to-Pay Stabilization, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Well, base pay is provided every two weeks. If an individual feels that he or she is not getting what is owed, they can report that—they do report that—and that gets escalated either through the client contact centre or through our escalation unit at PSPC.
We do investigate, but we ask that the severity of the issue be assessed before it comes to us so we can ensure that those with the most severe financial hardship are dealt with quickly. For those with lower-level financial issues—and I don't want to diminish this—we will get to those as we work through the higher priority first.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
All right.
I'm going to move to my next line of questioning, which has to do with looking at alternatives.
I've heard that the CRA has a payroll system in place that is not Phoenix. It interacts with Phoenix or works with Phoenix, but it's not exactly Phoenix, and it's having a higher rate of success than Phoenix. There are some who feel that it could be adapted well enough to serve as a replacement for Phoenix and that it would be a lot quicker than starting from whole cloth on a new system.
When you're asking for money in the supplementary estimates to explore new systems, how much of the resources available for developing a new system is being invested in exploring that option seriously, versus looking at developing a new option from whole cloth?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
It's a wonderful question, but unfortunately we have no time for the answer, unless Madame Yip wants to cede some of her time to allow you a chance to answer.
Madame Yip, you're up for seven minutes. Go ahead, please.
Jean Yip Scarborough—Agincourt, Lib.
No, I don't think I'll be sharing my time today.
Thank you very much for coming.
My first question is in regard to Shared Services Canada and the supplementary estimates (A) for capital expenditures. Why is it minus almost $26 million?
Chief Financial Officer, Shared Services Canada
Not quite.
In supplementary estimates (A), the main negative amount is a vote transfer, actually. It's an internal transfer between votes. In plain language, it means that we're transferring some money from our capital expenditures to our regular O and M expenditures. You can see that on the supplementary estimates (A). That's a main....
Scarborough—Agincourt, Lib.
Okay. Can you explain what the funding for core information technology services is for? What does it involve?
Chief Financial Officer, Shared Services Canada
The main item under this $2.5 million is actually the charge that.... For every submission that goes in front of the Treasury Board, there's a charge per FTE that's being allocated to Shared Services, and that represents the majority of that amount. It's $700 per FTE, actually.
Scarborough—Agincourt, Lib.
I'll move to my next question. What do core information technology services involve?