Evidence of meeting #168 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was transition.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Thanks again for the information you shared.
I want to get back to hiring vets into the public service. From your point of view, how would it ideally look?
Apparently, we do have this concierge service where, once you apply, you're identified as a priority. Someone does step in and walk you through. To me, it should be made available six months before you're leaving the service, even though it is too much paperwork. It's like, “Here, this is available, so get ready for it.”
From your experience, how would it look, ideally, for you to walk into a regular public service job, not as a scientist, but any of the myriad jobs in Ottawa that are being done right now?
5:20 p.m.
Nurse Practitioner Captain (Retired), As an Individual
At all bases, there could be a public service rep who would help vets—whether medically released or otherwise—through the process, to tell them what they need for their application for job, x, y or z, and go step by step to facilitate it. There may still be a lot of paperwork involved, but having that guidance and assistance will alleviate some of the stress. They could also help them identify the key words they need in their resumé to help populate it and show up in the top 10 or the top 15.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Heaven forbid we should add to the bureaucracy, but is there a role somewhere for someone, a type of ombudsman, who says it is BS that this vet has been turned down because he doesn't have the right experience? It's like, they'll turn you down as a driver because you've only driven a tank. It's oversimplifying, but the stuff I've heard back from vets trying to get in is mind-boggling.
5:20 p.m.
Nurse Practitioner Captain (Retired), As an Individual
I definitely think debriefing.... I applied for a nurse practitioner position—
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Some recourse for them when they've been turned down for bureaucratic silliness....
5:20 p.m.
As an Individual
I think the quota idea is a wonderful idea. In a perfect world, if your MPRR—
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
That was going to be my next question.
How would you see a quota working? My understanding is that down in the United States, it's name and shame. If they don't achieve that, you're named and shamed and your bureaucratic career is over.
5:20 p.m.
As an Individual
Yes, they call them out.
Australia does the same thing.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
How do you see the quota working? For instance, would it be that you must hire 20% of vets or you must hire a certain number?
5:20 p.m.
As an Individual
Now I'm going to put on my public service hat for a second.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
5:20 p.m.
As an Individual
I've received four emails in the last two weeks about performance management appraisals, so there has to be a quota on those. I'm pretty sure if we drove the same system you'd get your number. I know performance bonuses go with those PMAs.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
In a previous study we've seen quotas for first nation business and how the government apparently just ignores the quotas.
5:20 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Do you think that would work?
For instance, how would you set a quota? We have so many qualified vets coming in from all levels, from a service level to major level. How would you set that when there's such a disparate set of backgrounds and such a disparate set of jobs in the public service? Do you think it's numbers-based or percentage-based?
5:20 p.m.
As an Individual
I can't answer that. I think that takes a long quantitative review on what you're doing, but I do think, in a perfect world, if that MPRR were translated into a resumé, and somebody sat there and told the public service manager that this course is your values and ethics course, that would go a long way—
5:25 p.m.
As an Individual
—because right now that list.... I don't know if any of you have ever seen what an MPRR looks like. It's a one-pager, and it has your whole life on it: your name, rank, date of birth, everybody in your family, all your awards, all your tours and all your courses, by dates and in very brief detail. They translate into some of our public service courses, but a regular manager would never know that.
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
No, and it shouldn't be that difficult to have someone from the military say, “This is valid to this and this is acceptable for this qualification.”
5:25 p.m.
As an Individual
It's a boots-on-the-ground approach. It's not in a boardroom somewhere saying this is how it works. It's the hiring manager who needs to know how to translate that MPRR.
5:25 p.m.
Nurse Practitioner Captain (Retired), As an Individual
If I could add to that, I was asked earlier about the position I applied for. As I said, I applied through the government website, and I received an email saying, “Thank you for applying, but you don't meet the qualifications.”
I never got debriefed. I don't know what I was missing. I think debriefing would be good.
Let's say I'm not selected for an interview. That's water off a duck's back, but at least debrief me to say what criteria I was missing, to help me for the next time.
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
I'm glad you brought that up because I do have a concern that perhaps the hiring managers are choosing this person because they want to choose this person—
5:25 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
—and excluding some from the priority, whether it's a medically released vet, a regular vet or one of our other equity targets, for a specific reason.
