Government Operations Committee on June 5th, 2019

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

While it's a great question, we're completely out of time.

As I always do with all of our witnesses, I will ask for the following. If there are any questions asked by committee members that are unanswered in direct testimony, we would ask you to please deliver answers through our clerk in writing. We would appreciate the answer to that question, but unfortunately, because of the time constraints, particularly for the minister, we have to continue.

We'll go to Mr. Drouin for five minutes, please.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thanks to everybody for being here.

As a national capital region member of Parliament, I too have been getting a lot of calls with regard to Phoenix. I think it's important to remember the fact that it wasn't you, Minister, who issued the contract for IBM; it was these guys over there, and one of the members was sitting at the cabinet table.

I think it's important to remind Canadians that, yes, we have to deal with IBM, but when you buy a Mazda, you have to go to the Mazda dealer; you don't go to Ford to get it fixed, and I think we're stuck having to deal with IBM, despite the warnings that they were given at the time. I just think it's important to remind those who are suffering under Phoenix about the facts at hand.

Minister, many of my constituents are government workers who commute to Ottawa or Gatineau. My riding runs along the entire Ottawa River, so some of them live in Rockland, Cumberland, Russell or even Embrun, and traffic is a serious concern for many public servants. A lot of people want to know what is happening with the interprovincial crossing. The Chaudière Bridge was closed because of flooding, so that made congestion worse. The last bridge that was built east of the Macdonald-Cartier Bridge is in my neck of the woods, in Hawkesbury. I believe it's 110 kilometres from downtown Ottawa.

Can you give the committee an update on the crossing?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Thank you for the question.

We know there's a demonstrated need for an additional crossing in the NCR. We also, as a government, have a responsibility to build and maintain interprovincial crossings.

With that in mind, in budget 2019 we signalled an intention to address this in a number of ways. We're going to be refreshing existing studies. We know there have been some very good studies done, but we need to make sure they remain up to date and the information remains relevant. We're going to develop what we're calling an “integrated provincial crossing plan”, and we're going to replace the Alexandra Bridge. Those are the three pillars of our plan around the NCR bridges.

We're working with our partners including, as you can appreciate, the City of Ottawa, the City of Gatineau and the two provinces. There are a bunch of players at these tables.

In the meantime, of course, we have to continue with our rehabilitation work on the Chaudière Bridge and the existing Alexandra Bridge.

A lot is going on, and we're very excited this is finally happening for your region.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Absolutely, it's an issue that has been talked about a lot or avoided, and I think it's an issue that has a direct impact not only on our public servants but also on those who work in either province.

One of the other issues that has an impact on the national capital region is the modernization of our heating and cooling plants. I know there was an announcement made. Could you update this committee on what it is that we're planning on doing with this particular heating plant?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

For some time now, we've been working to modernize our energy services in government buildings. What we're looking to do is use electric power for cooling, and low-temperature hot water for heating, instead of the very hot water that's heating our buildings right now. What we announced recently was a $1.1-billion investment in capital and $1.7 billion in operations over the next 23 or 25 years.

[Bill Matthews]

It's 23, I think.

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

It will take 23 years to completely reduce.... I think it's a 60% reduction in greenhouse gas emissions in over 80 buildings located in the national capital region. This is a privatization of these services, and we have been working with the unions and public servants who are impacted to ensure that there's no job loss associated with this. There has been a workforce transition committee.

What is it called? I apologize.

We've worked really hard to make sure we're doing this in a respectful way while, at the same time, taking advantage of new technology to heat an entire region.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Great, thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Colleagues, we'll have one last five-minute intervention.

Minister Qualtrough, once again, thank you for extending your time with us until 5:35.

The last intervention will be by Mr. McCauley.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I want to go back to Irving. They've claimed a $40-million credit that we know about for the french fry factory under the ITB. The ITB policy specifically states that it's to ensure “Canada's significant investment in defence-related goods and services”.

I have to ask, how does crediting Irving for french fries contribute to our defence industry and our R and D capabilities? Is there some unknown french-fry or potato-capability gap that we're not aware of that we have to invest in?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

Again, as committee members are aware, the ITB policy is our main tool for leveraging defence procurement for the benefit of the Canadian economy. There are arrangements made with successful suppliers, which ultimately provide the goods to give dollar-for-dollar benefit to the Canadian economy. These benefits can be direct or they can be indirect.

Michael or André, would you rather give—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I just want to go back....

It specifically states, “ITB Policy ensures...Canada's significant investment in defence-related goods and services”.

How are french fries defence-related goods and services or R and D?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

I also understand that the policy allows us to look at the level of technology within a given plant. If it's the same or a higher level of the technology within the main contract itself, it can be credited.

It's not a dollar-for-dollar credit, so while this was a—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Let me ask, do you believe it's a valid use of the ITB to give them a $40-million ITB credit for french fries?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

I personally believe that in a multi-billion dollar procurement—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

It's a yes-or-no question.

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

No. I'm going to flesh out my answer, if you'll give me the—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

If they came up to you today and asked for a hamburger manufacturing plant for $40 million, would you allow that under the ITB?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

I think good technology jobs are good technology jobs. These are well-paying jobs, and they are not to be diminished. They're working with significant technology that is at par or higher than the technology used in our defence procurement.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I'm pleased that there's something going on in Alberta from the government. However, I don't think the ITB was meant for that.

Not now, but would you be able to provide to this committee a list of all the ITB credits granted the last couple of years to Irving, Seaspan, and all of our defence spending?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

That would be an ISED question. We don't track that.

When we design a process, we don't track the—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

So you won't provide it for us?

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

I don't know if I can get it. I apologize. I'm not meaning to be difficult.

Can we—?

[Bill Matthews]

We can try, but I think your questions—

[Carla Qualtrough, Liberal, Delta, BC]

I'm not sure we can obligate another department, but I'm not sure procedurally—