Government Operations Committee on July 28th, 2016

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

I don't know every single rule that we need to follow, but we have two witnesses here to answer questions. I think these kinds of things are procedural and maybe we deal with them afterwards, in camera or whatever, and go back to the witnesses now.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Well, Mr. McCauley is well within his right to bring forward a motion when he has been recognized, when he has the floor. He has done that. I'm ruling that the wording of the motion is out of order.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

But this is substantially different, because this is asking for not just the minister to appear, but to conduct the full study of the pay system and for the minister to appear. The previous one was not that.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Mr. Chair, I think the government is already conducting the study, and therefore Mr. McCauley's motion is really out of order. It's my understanding that the government is conducting the study.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

To my knowledge, I don't know who is conducting that study. This committee is not; this is just an examination.

I will have to consult with my clerk, but the point is that if your motion were simply to rescind the vote of the earlier motion, it would be completely in order. If that is the only point you have, now that I've recognized you, let me take some time to consult with my clerk for about two or three minutes—hopefully no more than that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

I apologize to our two witnesses, who have been sitting very patiently for close to two hours before appearing at the table, while we deal with this procedural matter.

Mr. McCauley, I believe you have a revision of the wording of your motion.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Thank you for your patience.

I'm moving, in revising it such that the Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates conduct a full study of the Phoenix pay system.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

All right; we have a motion.

Does anyone wish to speak to the motion?

[Nick Whalen, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

That sounds pretty similar to the motion that Mr. Weir had on notice, subject to a slightly different wording.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Well, Mr. Weir's motion is on notice, but he hasn't spoken to it and hasn't introduced it, which has to be done, from a procedural standpoint. The only time you can introduce it is when you have the floor. Mr. McCauley has the floor now. At least he has been recognized; that's why he's introducing this motion.

These are all the arcane procedural sorts of things that we live by here.

So we have a motion. Do we have another speaker?

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

No, I just need clarification.

Are you just presenting that motion and then letting the subcommittee decide the dates of the study? We are in the middle of—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

If we're agreeing on the study, then yes, I am.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Okay, but we will be in the middle of Canada Post and everything else.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

The motion, for committee members, is simply whether we agree as a committee to conduct a study.

What we've done today is an examination or a briefing, however you wish to call it. A study, of course, is far more extensive than that. It can entail several other meetings delving into many other areas. That is the essence of the motion put forward by Mr. McCauley.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I'm sorry; it's before August 5. It's that we do the study by August 5.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

So it's to conduct and complete a study before August 5th?

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

It's that it begin before August 5.

I'm sorry; we have miscommunication on our side.

It's that we start it by August 5.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

It's that we commence a study no later than August 5.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Yes, my apologies.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

All right. The question, then, is whether the committee agrees to commence a study on the Phoenix pay system prior to August 5.

I'll call the question on that.

(Motion negatived)

Now, I think unfortunately that took up the five minutes, and I have Mr. Drouin next on my list.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

No, I'll pass. My colleague has answered my questions for me, so I'm okay.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

All right.

Mr. Weir, did you have a question?

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Well, since we've devolved into committee business, I think I will use my time just to introduce the motion that I already have on the order paper. I'm happy to read the motion, if that's useful to the committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Yes, procedurally you'll have to introduce the motion, and you can do that now.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Sure. It reads:

That the Committee study the Phoenix pay system and invite witnesses including the Minister of Public Services and Procurement, the Deputy Minister of Public Services and Procurement, federal employees who have not been paid correctly and their union representatives.