Evidence of meeting #26 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was service.
A video is available from Parliament.
6:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
We'll go now to the start of a new round. This will be a seven-minute round.
Go ahead, Madame Ratansi.
6:40 p.m.
Liberal
Yasmin Ratansi Liberal Don Valley East, ON
Thank you, all. You come with a strong business background, and I appreciate the work you have done.
I'd like to note that we are going to be doing consultation. Your role, as you noted, was not to conduct any public consultations, but rather to have the engagement of stakeholders.
As you engaged with stakeholders, you also used EKOS for your consultation. Is it possible to get the raw data that you received from them? Is it fair to share it with us? We will be doing the same thing, but we need to ensure that we enhance our research with what you probably received in raw data. Is it possible?
6:40 p.m.
President, Task Force on Canada Post Corporation
It is to be shared first with the department, and then it is for the department to decide how to share. For us, what we had to make public through the department was the discussion paper.
6:45 p.m.
Liberal
Yasmin Ratansi Liberal Don Valley East, ON
Fair enough.
Mr. Chair, could we take that up? I don't want to spend my minutes on it, but we'll discuss it later.
6:45 p.m.
Liberal
Yasmin Ratansi Liberal Don Valley East, ON
Under Canada Post's charter, it's mandated to provide postal service to Canadians. I'm trying to figure out how you see this mandate being fulfilled, because you note in your report that a 90-plus percentage are satisfied with Canada Post. Canada Post is a symbol they have come to adore.
You say in your statement that Canadians are overserviced by Canada Post. Could you explain what you meant by that?
6:45 p.m.
Member, Task Force on Canada Post Corporation
You're looking to see if 99% are satisfied with Canada Post.
6:45 p.m.
Liberal
Yasmin Ratansi Liberal Don Valley East, ON
No. In your report you were saying 90% of Canadians are satisfied with Canada Post. Also, your report—or your discussion paper, really, since we're using it as a discussion paper—refers to Canadians being overserved by Canada Post. What does that mean?
6:45 p.m.
Member, Task Force on Canada Post Corporation
What we heard was, as you said, they're overwhelmingly satisfied with Canada Post, but they told us that they could see themselves being happy with less than five-day-a-week delivery, that they could accept alternate-day delivery as a viable option, especially when it was held up against price increases. Price sensitivity was really an issue. They would prefer to look at things like delivery every second day and that sort of thing.
I think those are the kinds of options that need to be put on the table and discussed with Canadians. Also, we found as we surveyed that most people were quite happy with community mailboxes. We've heard a lot of talk about the need for door-to-door delivery, but when you look at the numbers, the reality is that most people in Canada are not getting door-to-door delivery. They're getting it through community mailboxes, through post offices, through apartment lobbies, and so on.
When you talk to people, the consensus now is somewhat different from the initial impressions.
6:45 p.m.
Liberal
Yasmin Ratansi Liberal Don Valley East, ON
If I understand you correctly, by “overserved” you meant they didn't mind some service cuts. Okay, fair enough.
6:45 p.m.
Member, Task Force on Canada Post Corporation
The one exception was parcels. They really want parcels to be timely and reliable and cost-effective as well.
6:45 p.m.
Liberal
Yasmin Ratansi Liberal Don Valley East, ON
Consider an 85¢ stamp versus a $5 coffee. Let's be realistic: if we want service, we pay for it.
I was a little taken aback by the Canada Post Corporation's press release after your task force report that says that your report or your discussion paper validates their five-point plan.
Did you look at the five-point plan, and is this statement that they have made a truism or is it just a position? I am asking because we have to keep an open mind. We're here to discuss.
6:45 p.m.
Member, Task Force on Canada Post Corporation
Absolutely.
As discussed previously during this meeting, we had a look at the five-point plan. It was a good plan at that point in time. It wasn't fully actioned, but it's even at the root of many of our recommendations. To say that it was validated is probably correct, but it simply wasn't enough and it isn't enough today.
6:45 p.m.
Liberal
Yasmin Ratansi Liberal Don Valley East, ON
Fair enough.
Mr. Hopson, your resumé says that you teach leadership, you do team building, you manage change. Canada Post—we've not discussed this—is in the business of logistics. Think about it. They have excellent logistics. Has anybody reviewed that option? The five options or the six options you have given do not look at that venture. Could you give me some insight?
6:45 p.m.
Member, Task Force on Canada Post Corporation
I'm not sure I fully understand the question in terms of logistics.
6:45 p.m.
Liberal
Yasmin Ratansi Liberal Don Valley East, ON
Logistics is the business of delivering mail, having a network of services. In that network of services, there's so much potential. There is potential for innovation, etc. In your managing change, did you look at how this expertise in logistics could be utilized in a different channel to make the corporation more profitable?
Someone in your group can answer that.
6:50 p.m.
Member, Task Force on Canada Post Corporation
We looked at several options that were there. We talked about things that could be done in terms of streamlining. I think what you're referring to is that they have this tremendous network right across Canada. They have a large, motivated group of more than 50,000 employees. When we talk about that as we go forward, that's where the transformation comes in. In order for transformation to occur, it needs all people working together with a common vision, common goal, and common values.
I think that idea really needs to be part of this as we go forward. It can't be business as usual, business as we've seen in the past. We can't continue to do things in the same way in the same time frames and so on. We are talking about a buy-in by a large number of stakeholders: the Canada Post Corporation, the government, the employees themselves, and the users. They all have to be on one page as we go forward to make this thing sustainable.
6:50 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
Seven minutes goes by very quickly, doesn't it?
Mr. Blaney, you have the floor and you have seven minutes.
6:50 p.m.
Conservative
Steven Blaney Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I would like once again to thank the witnesses who are with us today.
Ms. Bertrand, there was a part of your report that I liked. Representatives spoke to me about establishing a postal banking service. You have examined this possibility and it is clear from your conclusions that this is not necessarily a desirable or viable option. That is clear and it provides a certain framework. The comments about this are useful. We have a bit of time and I would ask you for some brief comments.
What I liked about your report is that you make a distinction between a letter that someone is expecting once per week, and packages that people want every day. There is competition. It is as though Canada Post's exit door, which is parcel delivery, is closing again due to competition and because Canada Post's costs are higher. I would say it is almost a catch-22.
I would also like to thank you for helping me to understand this evening that it is one size fits all. Canada Post is essentially a service that delivers various things and people are happy with it. I understood that. People are willing to receive their mail less often but want to receive their packages more often. How can all that be done while dealing with the $5-billion deficit? That is my question for you.
6:50 p.m.
President, Task Force on Canada Post Corporation
We have not studied how it will be done at the operational level. We leave that up to the experts. It will eventually be up to Canada Post to determine that.
The issue for us is the following. Mail and parcels are currently delivered through the same system. Your colleague was correct in referring to logistics. It is very interesting. Canada Post has a tremendous amount of data, but other players in the sector also have data. So there is a lot of competition.
The only unique thing that Canada Post can offer right now with its employees, apart from last-mile service, is that it has a privilege or a monopoly. It is in competition with Uber, Amazon and everything that the other players can offer. We have to take advantage of attrition to become smarter in order to find a solution to the pension deficit and produce change.
6:50 p.m.
Conservative
Steven Blaney Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC
Will you recommend, for instance, that—
6:50 p.m.
President, Task Force on Canada Post Corporation
We are not recommending anything.
6:50 p.m.
Conservative
Steven Blaney Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC
No?
There will surely be recommendations in your second report though.
Would you consider having a separate system for mail and package delivery? Based on the avenues you are considering to achieve profitability, would that be a viable solution?