Government Operations Committee on Sept. 26th, 2016

[Lionel Perez]

I would say that it is much more than a lack of communication, that it is really a matter of a cavalier attitude. Communications were merely a matter of form. These people informed us of their decisions after the fact rather than consult us in advance so that we could work together. I will limit myself to that to give the others an opportunity to speak.

[Marc Demers]

There was indeed a lack of communication. I would remind you that our initial stance was one of cooperation. All the expertise of the City of Laval was made available to Canada Post. I will add that, in my view, there was a lack of vision. Canada Post's first function is to circulate information, somewhat as the purpose of a highway is to circulate vehicles. For a corporation, the ability to circulate information has economic value, and cost-effectiveness is necessary. However, the absence of that service would have a terrible economic and social impact. A lack of communication—

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Mr. Demers, I would ask you to give the others an opportunity to respond. However, I am interested in what you say and would like to come back to it.

Mr. Lapointe, you have the floor.

[Sylvain Lapointe]

That is unfortunate, but I will go even further. There is literally a disinformation campaign going on among the orders of government with regard to both employees and the public. Canada Post commissioned a study. I honestly believe it is a bogus study, given the figures and forecasts it contains.

2011 was really an unusual year in view of the fact that we are talking about the pay equity file and a single payment to the pension plan. These people expected losses, but there was $900 million in profits over those five years, with the exception of 2011. All those figures are being put forward to explain cuts that are not financially justifiable. This amounts to manipulation.

2013 is another example. Accounting methods were replaced by international accounting standard IAS 19, but they failed to point out that otherwise there would have been hundreds of millions of dollars in profits. Data is constantly being used to justify cuts rather than to opt for new services.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

I apologize for rushing you a little, but I want to move on to other questions.

Mr. Duguay, please go ahead.

[Alain Duguay]

Social peace reigned at Canada Post for 14 years. There were no labour disputes and everything went quite well. However, Canada Post's position has hardened since 2010, and workers have suffered from that hardened attitude. Unfortunately, in recent years, we have seen the same intransigent attitude directed toward municipalities and the public at large. In other words, Canada Post makes decisions and acts without any consideration for what people think.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Demers, Canada Post's delivery of a high-quality national service is a matter of concern to me. You talked about cost-effectiveness and service quality.

In your view, is it important for Canada Post's service to be subsidized?

I do not want to reanalyze the figures. We can let the experts talk about that subject and determine whether Canada Post needs revenue in order to be profitable.

Supposing it posts an operating loss, do you feel that service is essential?

[Marc Demers]

I think it is an essential service. There is the commercial aspect and so on.

A large segment of the population does not have Internet access. For some, that is due to technical factors, whereas, for others, it is for reasons of knowledge or interest. The population is aging across the country, particularly in Laval. Our city consists of 14 former municipalities, several of which are rural developments. They do not have sidewalks yet. If people do not have home delivery service, they will be unable to communicate with their suppliers and members of their families. As an organized corporation, there is an obligation to maintain this service, not to mention the safety and economic aspects.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Whether or not that service operates at a loss?

[Marc Demers]

The government must make decisions. It must evaluate the service's overall impact, and that may be more than what appears in a column of Canada Post figures.

[Lionel Perez]

It is important to emphasize that Canada Post currently has an obligation to fund itself. You talk about subsidies. That in fact is not an issue. It is true that the business model will evolve, and it is actually doing that. In the present circumstances, I do not think Canada Post needs subsidies at all cost.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

That can be translated into subsidies or increased rates. We received a report that cited increased rates.

[Lionel Perez]

Absolutely.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

I think that is a major difference. Whether it comes from the government or from citizens, it ultimately comes out of the same pocket.

[Lionel Perez]

It is a service. Even if it is privatized, it will come out of the taxpayer's pocket. It has to be acknowledged that this is an essential service. We share the City of Laval's opinion on that point. We think there are changes to be made. Canada Post must continue to fund itself and find a way to do that. It currently has an obligation under this legislative framework to provide universal service in rural and urban areas. We say that Canada Post must meet its obligations.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Mr. McCauley.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Gentlemen, thank you for being here today. I appreciate your feedback and your input.

Mr. Demers and Mr. Perez, we've heard at length about the lack of consultation. In our meetings with Canada Post last week they acknowledged as much, and appear to be committing to consulting more with the communities.

If this does come about, will you be open to revisiting the issue? What would you need to revisit the issue of community mailboxes, if we go down the path as has been noted in the task force?

[Lionel Perez]

I'm happy to hear that they say they want to consult more, but last year, or the last two years, they said that they were consulting more, or that they were consulting sufficiently.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Yes, but going forward—

[Lionel Perez]

I understand. Going forward, we think that not only should they have to but there should be, in fact, a legislative requirement for them to have to consult with municipalities and other communities to be able to act.

That doesn't alleviate all the other issues of implementing community mailboxes in largely dense urban areas. There are issues of safety, universal accessibility, and maintenance. All these issues are part and parcel of some of the obstacles to implement them in Old Montreal on Saint-Denis Street. These things are not feasible. The roadwork, the public domain, were not built with such elements—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

And 300 years ago, I don't think we looked at it.

[Lionel Perez]

Next year Montreal will be 375.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Yes.

[Marc Demers]

In 2016, social licence is increasingly a mandatory precondition for any change in society, the municipalities, and the various levels of government. Communication is essential. The wall-to-wall solution is no solution. Solutions must be adapted to the characteristics of the various sectors and to the needs of the public. That has not been done in the case of Canada Post, whereas our primary intention was to cooperate. We assigned a person to the Canada Post file on virtually a full-time basis—even more—without receiving any benefit for the municipality. We covered those costs strictly in order to serve the public well.

I would remind you that this was an election issue in our region. The elected members of the current federal government undertook to review and maintain home delivery in a number of areas. This is a concern for citizens. Canada Post is a representative of the federal government in the minds of a large segment of the population.