Government Operations Committee on Sept. 28th, 2016

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

In hearing from other advocates, I think it needs to be simplified. It needs to be a lot more direct and right in front, so people can find it immediately.

We have to let people know. We met with CARP yesterday, the Canadian Association of Retired Persons, and they were not aware of it . They're going to put it on the front page of their website now to let seniors know that this is available.

Is it fair to say that with proper consultation with stakeholder groups we can make it workable?

[Gayle Jones]

It would help.

I think a better option would be reduced days of service, but if that's not a possibility, that's what I would suggest.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

It's one of the things that has come up, and that's what's great about meeting so many people.

One of the suggestions that came up was summertime community mailbox, wintertime home delivery, for affected people.

[Gayle Jones]

That's another good option.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

There are a lot of ideas getting thrown out by people, and that's the value of having you here today. Your time is well spent with us. Thanks.

Mr. Richmond, one of the things we've heard about from some of the business groups was weekend delivery for boxes and parcels.

Did I hear you say that it already exists?

[Derek Richmond]

Currently, no.

Evenings—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Sorry, I misheard. I thought you said there were boxes delivered on Saturdays too.

[Derek Richmond]

We want to expand service into weekends, and I believe a provision in our collective agreement that we just signed allows for weekend delivery. We can expand weekend delivery. We can expand evening delivery.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

That's parcel service, right?

[Derek Richmond]

That's correct, parcel service.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

And you folks are fine—?

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

We'll have cut it off there.

We'll go now, for seven minutes, to Ms. Hardcastle, please.

[Cheryl Hardcastle, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

These are intriguing presentations. In particular, Mr. Chair, I would like to thank the mayor of the Town of Tecumseh for being here.

For the benefit of the committee, I would like to clarify that Mr. McNamara and a presenter in the previous session, Mr. Schiller, are astute and politically engaged gentlemen who do have connections to the governing party. When they have a clear recollection of the campaign promise, I feel it gets a bit uncomfortable when we have other members coming up with a revised recollection, because it detracts from the issue here today. I would like to thank Mr. McNamara for his involvement.

In the respected position that Mr. McNamara has, and even as an Association of Municipalities of Ontario president, he does have a connection to other municipalities. Some of those municipalities, Mr. McNamara, have talked about postal banking. There are 600 municipalities that have passed resolutions to support postal banking.

I'm not sure where Tecumseh sits on that, but I'd like to hear from you the importance of postal banking that you mentioned earlier of consultation. There was a task force at one time that did talk about postal banking, and some of those findings have been limited.

I'm sure you're aware of that situation, and I'd like to hear your stance on how Canada Post can leverage in the future and have a role with municipalities with things like postal banking.

[Gary McNamara]

There are a lot of things I'm well aware of, and then there are others I'm not. I know in the lead-up to the community box issue in our community, we did meet with members of Canada Post and the CUPW individuals.

The only thing I can add is that leading up to this type of business where the crown corporation felt they could improve, their bottom line was the elimination of door-to-door delivery and expanding the community boxes, but not looking at all alternatives for revenue generation.

For me, on the personal side, during the run-up to the election it was almost, “giddy-up and go, and this is the only thing we're going to talk about”. You could see the government was putting a lot of pressure on Canada Post that if they could get these postal boxes up prior to the election, once they are there, they are there, and you have to live with them.

The ongoing dialogue we were trying to get with Canada Post was an opportunity to have a public meeting, but they shied away from it because they felt they would have been attacked because of what they are doing.

As a municipal politician—and many of you here probably went up the ranks from municipal politics—could you imagine setting up by-laws or changes in business acumen within the municipal sector without dialoguing with your public? You wouldn't be a municipal politician very long. You would be out the door. The point being, we should not dismiss opportunities to try to improve the business. I get it. At the end of the day, you want to make sure that the bottom line is improved.

One thing government sometimes forgets is there are services you cannot measure in dollars, and Canada Post is one of them about the delivery from door to door. It's no different than what we do. We provide transit to our residents. Is that money making for municipalities? There isn't a transit system in the world that makes money, but it's a service that's essential, and essential to who? The most vulnerable in society, seniors and disabled.

Canada Post has forgotten that, and government sometimes forgets. They had good intentions, and yes, we're only one taxpayer in the whole issue. We get all that, but sometimes we forget the people we should be serving, who are the most vulnerable in our communities. What they are doing to Tecumseh is in the oldest part of our neighbourhood with the highest concentration of seniors and disabled.

That's what I'm fighting for, and for my constituents to make sure we're reminded sometimes we have to pay a little more to make sure the most vulnerable in society get the service they deserve.

[Cheryl Hardcastle, NDP, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you so much.

My next question is for Mr. Richmond.

We haven't heard a lot of representation here from the business community and small and medium-sized enterprises, Mr. Richmond. I'm wondering if you can talk to us a little bit about the importance of daily delivery.

We have an existing Canada Post infrastructure that needs to be leveraged, as we've heard before. I know that CUPW is very innovative and very eager to be a part of the new reality and of keeping Canada Post current.

I'd like you to talk a bit about the significance of daily delivery and some of the nuances around that in terms of a business argument.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

It would have to be very quick. You have about 20 seconds, sir.

[Derek Richmond]

To be brief, the junk mail—we call it “junk mail”—is actually a revenue tool for small businesses. Pizza companies or Bell and Rogers all provide information to customers. In turn, those customers use those sales and everything else to generate business for corporations and to generate jobs. Companies like Bell and Rogers rely on call centres, and pizza delivery relies on the delivery of those flyers daily to generate business and job growth, to be brief.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

We have now Mr. Ayoub.

You have seven minutes.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank the witnesses for being here today. I'll be brief because seven minutes goes quickly.

Mr. McNamara, you are mayor, I have been a mayor and, as you said, many of us have municipal experience. I fully agree with you about the importance of being in touch with the people because, if you aren't, you won't be re-elected. Fortunately, there are people like you on the ground to gather the opinions of citizens and share them.

Unfortunately, the other side of the coin is that you get the complaints and suffer the consequences of the lack of consultation by Canada Post about installing community mailboxes. As a mayor, you often hear this kind of thing. You may get results, but you need to suffer the consequences that you did not cause, whether it's financial or has to do with services. In the case of Canada Post, if you had been consulted and if there had been a discussion like the one we're having today, we wouldn't be here.

I see that we're quickly getting to the end. Our colleagues from the various opposition parties are telling us to act on our promises immediately and that we promised this or that.

Ultimately, we are discussing solutions and best practices for Canada Post for the next 10, 20 and 30 years. We aren't going to hold more consultations like this in two or three years. That's not true.

If the process had been taken further and Canada Post had consulted you, would there have been the means to arrive at solutions, because I presume that the status quo isn't possible?

[Gary McNamara]

Thank you for your question. It's a good one.

There's nothing like a good discussion with stakeholders. In the case of Canada Post, the situation with installing community mailboxes in Tecumseh and Windsor might have been improved.

As for finding solutions that make sense and working with us on that, that's another thing. My colleague spoke earlier about seniors and more vulnerable people in our communities. They never had the opportunity to talk to Canada Post about the installation of community mailboxes, and I don't understand why not.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

Does it seem to you that everything was already decided in advance, regardless of the solution that might be considered? Canada Post employees came by and the community mailboxes were installed.

The message really came from senior management. As I understand it, even the unions weren't consulted. The message came from senior management or elsewhere. It's a crown corporation, so someone's responsible for the decision. A decision was imposed. Do you agree with me about that?

[Gary McNamara]

I totally agree with you. There was an election in October 2015. The installation began in September, and I'll tell you that the community mailboxes were installed quickly.

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

We have a new government now.

As for the expectations of the new government, would I be wrong in saying that we want more transparency, more consultations and better listening to the population to find solutions that are lasting, not temporary, and that will please everyone? Do you want a responsible government? That's what I understand from the discussions we're having.

[Gary McNamara]

Absolutely. I want to thank the government for giving us the opportunity to speak to the committee about the problems we're having in our municipalities. I think that Canada Post certainly has a responsibility in that respect. Canada Post's communication with communities is lacking. I think that—

[Ramez Ayoub, Liberal, Thérèse-De Blainville, QC]

I have to interrupt you, Mr. McNamara. That's what I understood.

I have other questions to ask, especially about people with reduced mobility. My questions are for Ms. Jones and Ms. John.

We've been told that there is a relationship between Canada Post and more specialized or adapted services for individuals with reduced mobility. Has Canada Post provided you with any information on this, and have you had the opportunity to discuss these issues with the managers? Did you know that Canada Post has addressed and resolved some specific cases? Have there been any particular cases so far that have been addressed and resolved with Canada Post? If so, do you have a tracking record of it?