Evidence of meeting #32 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was service.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
Thank you.
We'll now conclude with two five-minute interventions.
The first will come from Mr. Brassard.
Conservative
John Brassard Conservative Barrie—Innisfil, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
First of all, let me start by saying it's good to be in Windsor today, a very important city in terms of the Canadian economy, where $700 billion of trade between Canada and the U.S. happens every year and just $150 billion of it less than a kilometre away, so it's an important part of our Canadian economy. I'm proud to be here today.
Mr. Sutherland, I want to start with you. You're a business owner. You understand that revenue minus expenses equals income, and when expenses exceed revenue you end up with a sustainability problem. We're here in large part to address the sustainability issues for Canada Post. As a business owner, if your business were facing these types of sustainability issues, what would you do?
Business Owner, Petrolia, Ontario, As an Individual
We've had these issues twice and the federal government came out with the work-share program on two occasions where you worked four days a week. The employees had a day off and reduced wages. That was done twice. It was very effective. That was a government program that worked well for small business.
As far as getting back to what we're dealing with here today, we almost have to bite the bullet and say, “Look, we may be allowed to have subsidies to cover some things, but we can't use tax dollars so we're going to have to make adjustments.” Now, I think in the next five years, by attrition, won't Canada Post lose 25% of its employees? There is some natural reduction there, but then if you reduce employees, you have to be more efficient to get the work done, because there's nothing worse than putting stress on people by saying that of the five people there, two will be removed but those three will have to do the work that's still waiting to be done.
Conservative
John Brassard Conservative Barrie—Innisfil, ON
Mr. Schiller, I'll ask you the same question. I don't know your background but I assume you understand the principles of business.
As an Individual
I think the key to ensuring the viability of the operational long-term is having an accurate indicator of demand. I think that the corporation, over successive plans, has undermined demand for this service. That goes back to taking care of your employees and focusing on delivering a viable and reliable service for customers.
Conservative
John Brassard Conservative Barrie—Innisfil, ON
When you say “undermined demand”, give me some examples of that.
As an Individual
Local delivery has been cut from three days to seven to nine days. If the post office had a three-day delivery schedule it could be very different from what they're looking at now. If, rather than pushing away from door-to-door delivery and making it more difficult for Canadians to receive their mail at home, they put the focus on how they could increase their service for Canadians at home, maybe that would drive innovation in the way that's core to the mandate. I think that's really key.
We have a Canada Post act and a mandate for a crown corporation because we've deemed this to be a vital service. I would encourage committee members to direct the corporation to keep the focus on delivering the service. The better they do that, the more their projections will improve. There is a requirement for mail delivery in the country, even with the Internet age and all the rest. If anything, some people look at it as only increasing the demand for a reliable postal mail and package delivery service.
I look here in Windsor at the cross-border trade you mentioned. If we want to send something to Detroit, it goes to Toronto and ends up in Chicago. That's the antithesis of integrating our supply chains for further trade and development. The corporation has to look at ways to take advantage of these natural economies that are locally present and allow local businesses and local users to capitalize on that and get stuff across the border faster.
September 28th, 2016 / 9:20 a.m.
Conservative
John Brassard Conservative Barrie—Innisfil, ON
Thank you, Mr. Schiller.
Ms. Sitlington, you spoke about postal banking. I want to address that with you quickly.
In the task force report, Canada Post said it would be entering into a well-established banking market that would be highly competitive. The challenge with the banking industry is that salaries are traditionally less than those of Canada Post. I want to understand how Canada Post can compete in the banking sector when we already have these well-established banks in the system operating at far less cost.
President, Canadian Union of Postal Workers
I'm not sure I can answer this one either.
If you want to be innovative, then put your foot forward and just do it.
President, Canadian Union of Postal Workers
It may have to have a little trial in areas where big banks have pulled out.
Conservative
Liberal
Ramez Ayoub Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
First, I'd like to thank the witnesses for being here. It's quite refreshing to hear about nation-wide concerns.
I'll reassure you right off the bat: all of your concerns are shared by lots of people . At the same time, we have the unique opportunity to sit down, as we are doing today, and see what hasn't been done previously. There has been no consultation, and there has been a radical change toward new ways of doing things. But no one is getting up in the morning to make changes, to improvise.
We spoke about all of this earlier, particularly Mr. Schiller, and I think we all agree.
Mr. Schiller, you are asking for the return of home delivery. Did you know that only 32% of Canadians receive their mail at home?
In your opinion, where should we draw the line to go back and have fair, cross-Canada service? Since the five-point plan was released two years ago, the percentage of citizens receiving their mail at home has dropped a few points. Mr. Schiller, where do you think we should draw the line?
As an Individual
Thank you for your excellent question. If you don't mind, I'll answer in English.
As an Individual
When you say there's a difference between those who receive door-to-door delivery and those who don't, the reality is that those new communities were designed around non-door-to-door services. The postal boxes were installed in areas that considered traffic flows, and the development of that particular community.
What we're seeing now, particularly here in Windsor—Tecumseh, is they're trying to retrofit a community that was designed around door-to-door delivery to accommodate these community postal boxes. The challenges that they have in terms of safety is that the communities themselves aren't built to have community postal boxes.
Many of these are narrow or older streets, and they are more densely populated. That's why you have such absurd outcomes. It was a fiasco, locally, because they were putting them at the corners of intersections. They weren't considering the traffic flow and people stopping.
I appreciate that there is a difference the way mail is delivered and that it varies from community to community, but I don't think that it justifies the revocation of door-to-door delivery in a community like Windsor—Tecumseh. These people bought houses and paid their taxes. The design of the communities themselves has to be considered.
Liberal
Ramez Ayoub Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC
Based on what you're saying, we could have different types of service depending on the region.
Liberal
Ramez Ayoub Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC
Maybe Mr. Sutherland has something to add on the delivery. Where do we draw the line?
Business Owner, Petrolia, Ontario, As an Individual
My knowledge of the situation, coming from a small town, is that people will accept delivery two or three times a week. You reduce time, and the question I was asked I didn't really answer clearly.
In the survey and engineering work, what did we do about costs? We used three-person crews. Now we use one. How do you do the same work or better work with one person? You use electronic equipment, some of which costs $45,000 or $50,000. We've had to invest in equipment that has reduced the labour intensity.
Maybe with the postal service we get more electronic or more mechanized, and that way you can still provide the service. I feel strongly from my survey that you don't really need delivery five times a week even from a business point of view, but there are ways to reduce the cost and still provide the service.
Liberal
President, Canadian Union of Postal Workers
Door-to-door delivery should be restored into communities, like my colleague was saying, in newly developed cul-de-sacs, villages, and towns.
Liberal