Evidence of meeting #41 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was services.
1:40 p.m.
Liberal
Joël Lightbound Liberal Louis-Hébert, QC
On the same topic, I would now like to turn to Mr. Quesnel.
You are representing a chamber of commerce. So you are also representing small business owners who need to receive their mail on a daily basis. Could you tell me how they would be affected if they received their mail every two days? What are your thoughts on that?
1:40 p.m.
Director General, Chambre de commerce Baie-des-Chaleurs
I happen to be a three-minute walk away from the post office on rue Principale. So I see everyone go by, and I also see the post office. I have noticed that some shopkeepers don't go everyday. Increasingly, especially in remote regions, people have learned to use the Internet to reduce costs as well. We still rely on letter carriers a lot, because there is no way around that. Some letter carriers still drive to serve the rural routes.
I had not expected the thing about the people waiting for cheques, either. I think an adjustment can be made, since we know that some cheques come in on a set date.
In terms of mailing documents, I personally call Purolator if I have to send a document quickly. I had to send something to Service Canada recently, so I called Purolator and it was delivered the next day. Purolator is an option and is a Canada Post service. So one service can make up for the other.
1:40 p.m.
Liberal
Joël Lightbound Liberal Louis-Hébert, QC
Yes, the services could complement each other for documents that need to be sent quickly.
1:40 p.m.
Director General, Chambre de commerce Baie-des-Chaleurs
Absolutely. I think Canada Post and Purolator should work even more closely together.
1:40 p.m.
Liberal
Joël Lightbound Liberal Louis-Hébert, QC
I have another question for you, Mr. Quesnel.
Just now, we talked about postal banking. In a region such as the Gaspé, what banking services are there? In smaller municipalities, there are no banking services anymore. That's not a problem just in Quebec, but also across Canada. Do you think it might be beneficial to have banking services provided by Canada Post?
1:40 p.m.
Director General, Chambre de commerce Baie-des-Chaleurs
I'll be honest with you.
In Bonaventure, the Caisse Desjardins des Quatre-Vents had five points of service, but it's completely closing two of them at the beginning of November. There won't even be any ATMs. Everything will be concentrated in the central points in Caplan and Bonaventure. In Saint-Siméon, there will be one ATM left. Services will no longer be provided at the other points of service in the areas.
Last week, on the last day of the month, during the five hours the caisse was open, around 12 clients went in. At the end of the day, everyone's goal is to make money. The costs are huge there.
The decision to close some points of service had been made, but it took three years to prepare people for it. At every general meeting, people were notified on what was going to happen, with the support of statistics. Whenever I go into the caisse, the counters are often empty.
1:40 p.m.
Liberal
Joël Lightbound Liberal Louis-Hébert, QC
Some Canada Post offices are experiencing the same problem. Sometimes, only two or three people pass by in a day, which is the reason for the idea of perhaps providing banking services. That might make things a little busier. This would mean adding another service to the one already being provided.
In the communities where branches have been closed, are there post offices?
1:40 p.m.
Director General, Chambre de commerce Baie-des-Chaleurs
There are post office boxes, but no post offices as such. They are usually in the large centres.
In terms of banking services, I mentioned that I go to France every year, sometimes even twice a year. The banking services in the post offices have declined there too.
1:40 p.m.
Director General, Chambre de commerce Baie-des-Chaleurs
That's a reality for everyone. If it is a useful option for Canada Post and helps the corporation keep its services, then why not? That said, I'm not convinced that it will be profitable.
1:40 p.m.
Liberal
Joël Lightbound Liberal Louis-Hébert, QC
Right.
My next question is for Mr. Harvey.
First of all, I'd like to know what you think from the client's perspective about the idea of having the mail delivered every other day instead of every day.
1:40 p.m.
President, Coopérative d'habitation Ludovica
A week in this case is five days. Are we talking about Monday, Wednesday and Friday?
1:45 p.m.
President, Coopérative d'habitation Ludovica
It's important to consider the turnaround that things have taken in recent years. Overrides are always possible. In the case of people with reduced mobility, or who are disabled or seniors, it was possible to make changes if they provided a medical certificate.
It isn't easy. People say that the letter carrier might have a role to play. But I think that by eliminating two days of delivery a week, we aren't taking the carrier into account. We think that the carrier could play a significant role socially. That's why I don't think that delivery every other day would be useful or desirable.
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
We'll go to our final two intervenors, with five minutes each.
Go ahead, Mr. McCauley.
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Gentlemen, thanks for being here today. It's a pleasure to be back in this area. I came in January and toured the Davie shipyard. It is phenomenal, and the best in Canada. I hope we'll have an icebreaker being built there soon.
For the gentlemen with Desjardins, I was fortunate enough to have a lot of dealings with Coast Capital Savings in western Canada, and they always hold you up as a role model. Congratulations on that.
You talked a lot about going to digital and no longer mailing out bills. You must have a fair number of senior citizens as clients. We hear a lot that seniors don't have access to the Internet and that seniors cannot adapt. I have a stronger faith in our seniors, but what kind of feedback are you getting from your seniors, or how are you preparing for a purely digital banking world with this cohort or this demographic?
1:45 p.m.
Director, Government Relations, Desjardins Group
Thank you. I think this point is very important. People often tend to consider the population as a whole, when certain groups are probably more vulnerable. We have seen a significant decline in use by seniors. As I said earlier, the percentage dropped to about 3%. That's why all kinds of initiatives have been launched, specifically to reach out to them directly. They have even been offered courses and training at the caisses. Otherwise, the specific cases are handled on an individual basis. Instead of making a unilateral decision, in these specific cases, we use a proactive approach to reach them, essentially to be able to support them.
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
That's fantastic. I can see why Coast Capital thinks so highly of you.
Mr. Quesnel, we talked a bit about rate increases and how it affects your association. We've done a fair amount of polling that shows Canadian businesses don't want to see a rate increase. They don't want to see higher taxes either. Can I assume it's the same with your association?
1:45 p.m.
Director General, Chambre de commerce Baie-des-Chaleurs
Yes, it's the same thing for the businesses.
As Mr. Kmiec said earlier, the user-pay model is much more realistic than a sudden increase of 50¢ in the cost of stamps or based on the annual inflation rate, although it can be reasonable. Why should users repay Canada Post for things that should have been regulated long before?
I won't get into collective agreements, but this is another reality. It's always when we get to the end of the line that there's a problem. If we impose an additional tax or an additional cost, it would be the public who will pay because the company will pass the cost on to them.
1:45 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
You discussed rural post offices briefly. Across the country, especially in western Canada, we see a lot of post offices that were rural, but the cities have grown so much—Saskatoon, Edmonton, Spruce Grove—that they are now actually part of a large city. Do you think there's a role or a future for converting these, and using the money saved to help subsidize the true rural ones, where the services are a lot more needed or they are a lot more of a community hub?
1:45 p.m.
Director General, Chambre de commerce Baie-des-Chaleurs
Remote and rural areas aren't poorly served. I would even say that they are very well served by Canada Post. Is any restructuring needed? I think so, mainly by analyzing the annual costs of labour. There is always restructuring to do. Every company does it from year to year. We don't have the choice of monitoring the situation and seeing what it is, but we always need to keep clients and client service in mind.
As someone mentioned earlier, and we mentioned it too, there are people who can't live without Canada Post. I think it's important to say that.
1:50 p.m.
Liberal
Yasmin Ratansi Liberal Don Valley East, ON
Thank you very much.
Thank you all for giving us such different perspectives.
Monsieur Quesnel, in terms of qualitative analysis, you talked about losing jobs and about small communities being deprived of services. That's what we are looking at, because we need to ensure that our small communities flourish, that we have a growing middle class, and that people have secure jobs. If they do not have jobs in small communities—we have visited them—they move to the cities, and that creates other pressures.
We are looking at creative solutions for Canada Post, and we are looking at you. Desjardins has reinvented itself, and I as a shareholder would like to see you make a profit. How do we move forward? Canada Post is a service, but it is also a business. Should it break even, should it make a profit, or should it be subsidized?
1:50 p.m.
Director General, Chambre de commerce Baie-des-Chaleurs
Normally, it should break even. The Chamber of Commerce isn't subsidized and must be self-supporting. Our Chamber of Commerce covers a 220 km area that is home to 31,400 residents and some 800 businesses, including self-employed and other individuals. We are managing to survive. I have created three jobs. Our annual budget is now $435,000.
I'm also seeing all the young people who are coming back. There is a positive migration to Avignon and Bonaventure. Young professionals are returning after having lived in Quebec City, Ottawa or Montreal for a few years. They miss the regions. They are starting new businesses. They are all in the digital age.
In terms of Canada Post post offices and services, are there any additional costs? Businesses are willing to accept some increase, but not a sudden 50¢ increase. We're talking about user-pay, and I think it's normal. Businesses say so, too.
1:50 p.m.
Liberal
Yasmin Ratansi Liberal Don Valley East, ON
I have to cut you off because I have only five minutes.
You would like to be consulted before things happen. When changes are brought about, you want consultation.
I have a question for the Desjardins Group. Monsieur Brun, when your corporation reinvented itself, I'm sure you will say that your corporation faced challenges and that you had to manage within that environment. What are some of the opportunities that you found through those challenges? It's a big answer that you will give me, but give me one example, in one minute, of what you would do to reinvent Canada Post, because you have reinvented yourself.