Government Operations Committee on Oct. 18th, 2016

[Eric Oddleifson]

I've learned too that there's always more than one answer to a question. It's not a yes or a no. It's not just a business or just a service. It's both.

I see that there's a need to be profitable, and when I reviewed some of the materials that were sent to me, I see that there's cost-cutting here and cost-cutting there—millions and millions of dollars in cost-cutting. What are we cutting? Canada Post is fundamental to our nation. There have to be other answers than just cutting.

I have no problem with seeing prices go up in order to make it more profitable. Then again, from my business point of view, if prices go up, I'm happy with that, but for seniors, I don't know. It's not just across the board.... That's kind of where I'm at.

I really like Canada Post. I've also enjoyed home delivery service. Now I have a box a hundred yards from my house. It's not bad. I'm not going to complain. I'm not that old yet. I'm getting there, but not yet.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Ms. Kronewitt-Martin.

[Debby Kronewitt-Martin]

I'm going to stay with my concept of integrated.

In his book, Martin refers to the companies like Procter and Gamble who refuse to use the word “or”. They moved it to the word “and”. He said that was foundational to becoming and thinking “integrated”.

I'm going to say that Canada Post is a service that is required across Canada. As I said, it has incredible infrastructure that this country has built and needs to maintain. That is one of the key areas that we can get rid of, this rural-urban divide. If we change it into a business, then we risk the possibility of increasing that rural-urban divide. Believe me, that will cause a lot more costs and problems in the future than you could ever imagine. It's already causing us problems. There are countless reports on the web on that—countless reports—from every level of government, provincial and federal.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Could you elaborate on that?

[Debby Kronewitt-Martin]

For example, there was a report done by the Royal Society that talked about the use of Archives Canada and the fact that it was decreasing in many rural areas that could not access the information because they didn't have sufficient broadband width. They could not access the information that businesses could use to help them develop. They could not access the information that could help people educate their students to keep them there.

I found lots of reports. The cost of providing services in a country as broad as Canada is very high. If you use service centres as a means to bring it back down, then Canada Post has that infrastructure. You have it in place. It's laid before you now.

I have a diagram that will be shared. I apologize that it wasn't bilingual. The person who developed it is bilingual. I just didn't ask them to make it bilingual. When I use the word “and”, if you work with the communities and find out what opportunities they need and if you develop this platform and you have a range of services each community can access, then they can build it out into the business model they necessarily need. The platform provides that core structure for you, so it's an “and” discussion. I encourage you to have that “and” discussion, because it changes it from an “or” conversation, where you focus on the cost-cutting, to a focus on the possibilities.

Believe me, there are lots of possibilities out there. Don't give up your incredible infrastructure, because you will never get it back. It will be gone for good.

There are other opportunities. I read about a band in northern Ontario. They couldn't get a network in, so they developed their own high-speed Internet. All of a sudden, they started using telemedicine. They increased education to their students. They made a huge life difference in their community simply through that. You have a place to do that now.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

Mr. McCauley, you have seven minutes.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Great. Thanks for joining us today. Thanks for your comments.

Mr. Newell, first of all, thank you for your advocacy and your volunteer work with seniors. It's very much appreciated.

The seniors in your area...you said the northeast?

[Hugh Newell]

Northeast, yes.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Is it almost all home delivery, is it half and half, or have any areas converted?

[Hugh Newell]

It's probably evenly split. The new areas to the north are all super-box delivered. Within those areas, you hear mixed comments. I spent some time...I didn't get very much warning of this committee, but I spent a few days—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

We're like Monty Python's Spanish Inquisition.

[Hugh Newell]

—around the centre talking to people. Many people are happy with it, but they're people who have mobility. The people who have boxes near their houses are very unhappy, because they're the ones who are doing the work cleaning up around the boxes, and they're the ones who pick up all the flyers that get thrown on the ground every day.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

With the seniors who are in the area with the super boxes, how are they coping? That's what I'm trying to get at. Canada Post does have a procedure set up where they'll deliver daily to the box, and then once a week they will come and pick it up and deliver it to people with mobility issues. I'm wondering if people are taking advantage of that, or if they aren't aware of it. Can we go to twice a week, maybe, for that?

[Hugh Newell]

I think the problem with it is that, by and large, people are not aware of it. It's not publicized. I did encounter some people who use that. I encountered other people who gave the key to their neighbour to go to the box and get the mail for them. There are all kinds of solutions to it.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Do you think once a week is suitable, if we can get the word out better?

[Hugh Newell]

I don't think that's a problem, once a week, but I think that every time you remove a service you place a small barrier in front of people. A number of small barriers all of a sudden make an insurmountable barrier, and they can no longer stay in their homes. It's these tiny things that make the difference.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I think that's why the program is set up. Maybe it needs to be more than once a week. Maybe it needs to be better publicized.

Mr. Oddleifson mentioned the pricing. We see reports showing Canada Post will be almost $1 billion in deficit, operationally, by 2026, which means price increases or tax increases. I ask everyone, and Mr. Oddleifson mentioned he'd be fine with higher prices. Do you think seniors would respond, knowing that we're seeing a push on health care money, etc.? Would they be willing to give up some of that for going back to door-to-door delivery?

[Hugh Newell]

I think people would be willing to pay more, but I think you are missing the point.

I think there is a huge amount of business that is not being done by Canada Post. There are many opportunities they simply haven't looked at. When magazines are now hand-delivered rather than delivered through the post office, that tells me there is something basically wrong with the way the post office is running its business. That needs to be corrected.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Okay.

Ms. Kronewitt-Martin, I read that you got a recent appointment to Athabasca University.

[Debby Kronewitt-Martin]

Yes, I did. Thank you.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

My son is in grade 12, and he is considering Athabasca. Congratulations.

[Debby Kronewitt-Martin]

My husband got his MBA through Athabasca University. It was hard work, but it was very good.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Fantastic. I know a bunch of people who have done that.

You presented some great ideas and a lot of thought has gone into expanding the post office service. Alberta is different, obviously, but a bunch of the items you mentioned—car registration, etc.—are already covered privately. How do you...?

[Debby Kronewitt-Martin]

How do I deal with that?

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Exactly.

Quite honestly—