Government Operations Committee on Nov. 2nd, 2016

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

I'm asking about the Canada Post pension plan. I believe, in fact, you recommended a permanent exemption from solvency valuation. It strikes me that one of the reasons for that would be that Canada Post is a crown corporation; it's really part of the public sector, and I was just making the point that most federal public servants are part of a pension plan that is never subject to solvency valuation.

[François Paradis]

Right. Our point of view is that it was brought in for private sector employers and it's counterproductive to what we're trying to achieve, because it does take away, essentially, money the corporation would have to fund other areas of the business and, essentially, it serves no purpose. The pension plan currently, as stated in the task force document, has an $8.1-billion solvency deficit, but it is in a surplus situation on a going-concern basis, meaning that if the plan is able to continue into the future, which is, of course, the expectation, then there is no issue, and we will have enough assets to meet liabilities on a going-forward basis.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

That's excellent. I'd just like to turn things over to Karine Trudel.

[Karine Trudel, NDP, Jonquière, QC]

Thank you.

I'm pleased to see you again.

Ms. McAuley, earlier you spoke about the study on the postal bank. I would like to point out that I moved a motion to have all the documents that the committee studied.

I didn't find the Canada Post study on postal banks among the ones I received on Monday, as I had requested. I didn't find the briefs or the names of people involved in the study, either. So I have a request for you, Mr. Chair. Will we receive the information in dribs and drabs or will it be sent to us in full?

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Madam Trudel, in order for you to complete the seven minutes, we'll deal with that at the conclusion of this presentation by the witnesses.

[Karine Trudel, NDP, Jonquière, QC]

Thank you. That's kind.

Ms. McAuley, I would like to hear your thoughts on this. I know that you didn't have time to finish your presentation. Time went quickly. You could probably continue your presentation. You were on a roll telling us about the set-up and a study on postal banks. I'd like to know more about that. Do you have anything to add?

[Brenda McAuley]

I met with the corporation last week at our semi-annual meeting. Mr. Chopra was referring to those meetings earlier today, and I had asked if the task force was given the unredacted study of the postal banking study that the corporation did. We were told that the experts that the task force was using were given the unredacted study.

That's where we are at right now. Of course, we asked for it again, and to date we haven't been given the study. It's hard to collaborate with the corporation on postal banking when we've given them our study, and we've met with them, and they won't give us their unredacted study. In it 711 of the 800 pages were redacted, and there is one page that said it's win-win, so we're very curious about that.

As far as our study goes, it was established that there are 1,200 communities across Canada that do not have banking services. Out of the 615 indigenous communities, there are only 54 of those that do have postal banking. We see the need is there. We have the infrastructure, and we have the people ready and available, and they're FINTRAC trained. Our folks are security clear. FINTRAC training is the highest level of security training, and all our folks have that, so we're ready to go

[Karine Trudel, NDP, Jonquière, QC]

Several people addressed hours of service during the committee's consultations. They told us about the service of post offices and the hours of service. You mentioned earlier that the number of those hours had decreased at Canada Post.

Do you think increasing the number of hours would be a good thing? Would you be willing to have more flexible schedules? Saturday mornings were mentioned, especially in small communities where people have to work elsewhere and return late in the evening. What could we do to offer more services in the post offices?

[Brenda McAuley]

I worked Saturdays for 17 years, and I loved it. I got out of housework. Sorry, I had to go there. It was the standing joke in the house. I had three young sons, and it was sometimes fun to leave and have that break.

With that said, our folks were devastated when they lost their Saturday hours and Saturday hours of service, and again that was in line with promoting franchise. I say this with all due respect. The corporation had a mandate to do the five-point action plan, but they closed us at lunch, opened us later in the day, closed us earlier—to make us less convenient. The public would embrace the privatized franchises, which are open, I believe, about 76 hours a week.

Absolutely, we would love to have the extended hours, and we're ready. There are lots of folks who are looking for good-paying jobs in rural Canada. In fact, it's not just rural; it's all over Canada. We've seen it in the urban too.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Drouin, you have the floor.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll just be sharing 45 seconds, Mr. Whalen, it's yours.

[Nick Whalen, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

I hope I will have at least that.

On the question Ms. Trudel posed, I just wanted to ask if we could convene at the end of the meeting for a couple of minutes about the issue, the basis on which we will get that report.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

We will be. Thank you.

[Nick Whalen, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Okay, thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, everybody, for being here and, Ms. McAuley, thank you for following up on that question and clarifying the point. I really appreciate it, but I'm not going to concentrate on postal banking today.

I wanted to talk about pensions and get your view. During the previous testimony, we heard from Mr. Chopra and Mr. Cheeseman. He said that we've been working with...the solvency issue is not the only issue, but we would like to see perhaps joint governance.

I just want to find out from you if the management has reached out to any of you. I'm opening up the floor.

[Daniel Maheux]

The short answer is no.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Earlier, Mr. Cheeseman said that the problem of solvency wasn't everything. We talked about joint governance. That would mean that the unions would have a seat on the board of directors and would participate in management. This model is used in Ontario by teachers. Are you in favour of this? Have the managers spoken to you about it?

[Guy Dubois]

I'm not aware of that. In terms of whether we are open to it, nothing is impossible, but I haven't heard about it.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

What do you think, Mr. Paradis?

[François Paradis]

It's hard to tell. Right now I don't think there are any provisions at the federal level that allow for joint governance. There are no specifications. I think some provincial jurisdictions allow it. I think that would require some legislative changes, which may be part of the bill that the Liberals are bringing forward in terms of target benefit legislation. It's possibly why Mr. Cheeseman was talking about joint governance and things like that. We would be open to options that would not reduce our members' pension benefits. There are a number of options that we can explore that would have no negative impact on pension benefits for our current members and future members. I think that the primary focus should be on finding a solution that's right for the business and also right for the employees and the members of the plan.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

It's actually something that my colleagues have heard on the road in Toronto. As somebody brought up, both health care workers in Ontario, and the Ontario teachers' plan have that model. They did make some legislative changes, but it allows them not to make those solvency payments because the risk and governance...it's trusted.

The other issue that particular witness in Toronto raised was the need for an independent board to manage the pension issue. Would you be open to this? Right now I believe the pension report is internal to the corporation, but it's a completely third party investment board. Is that something you would entertain or would be opposed to?

[Daniel Maheux]

I think we would certainly be interested in learning more about it and listening to them if they were to talk to us.

Your previous question, as I understood it, was whether they had spoken to us. I stand on my answer; they have certainly not approached us.

Would we be open to the concept or the idea? I certainly would be willing to entertain discussions and find out more about it. As François mentioned, provided that the legislative changes are put in place, everything is possible.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Okay, great.

Since I still have two minutes left, I might hit postal banking.

From what I understand, Ms. McAuley, the 16-year pilot project was in Newfoundland.

[Brenda McAuley]

Yes, and in Moose Factory.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Okay. That involved complicated transactions. The reason why I said that you had to obtain your CFP certification was because in the task force they quoted the Scotiabank vice-president as saying that people are now going to the bank for more complicated transactions as opposed to less complicated transactions. In Newfoundland, if there were complicated transactions, was it not the bank manager of the Bank of Montreal who would take those?

[Brenda McAuley]

Yes, he would come to the community. People are travelling such great distances now to get to a bank. For some folks it's four hours, for others it's a two-and-a-half-hour drive, a six-hour boat ride, or a three-hour Ski-Doo ride, so the bank manager would come. It was easier for one person to be on the road.