Evidence of meeting #62 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was employees.
A video is available from Parliament.
5:40 p.m.
NDP
Erin Weir NDP Regina—Lewvan, SK
If those temporary pay centres were maintained, that would really wipe out the supposed savings of converting to Phoenix, wouldn't it?
5:40 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
That would change the original plan, obviously.
5:40 p.m.
NDP
Erin Weir NDP Regina—Lewvan, SK
It seems that both Phoenix and Shared Services have been attempts to centralize government services that have encountered many problems. Is there some kind of systemic reason that the Government of Canada has difficulty with this enterprise-wide transformation?
5:40 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
How long do I have to answer that one?
5:40 p.m.
Conservative
5:40 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I'll just say this. We will learn. We have already learned a lot from the Phoenix implementation, and we will learn more.
The Government of Canada is a big organization to have pan-government systems. It's 101 organizations. We will learn about how we need to build the accountability and the governance of these projects. Pay is one where it really matters, and we will hear everything until the last minute. We will take advantage of that and learn from it, because we need to be able to apply that to other projects we do.
5:40 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
Very good. Right on time.
Colleagues, as you know, I mentioned at the outset of this meeting that, even though the bells will start ringing in just a few moments, we will go until 6 p.m., and we'll try to get in as many questions as we can on the normal rotation round.
We'll now go to Mr. Whalen, for seven minutes.
5:40 p.m.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
Mr. Weir, if you like to hang out with tall people, you're more than welcome to come and play for the Liberal basketball team.
5:40 p.m.
Voices
Oh, oh!
5:40 p.m.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
Mr. Liddy, I want to drill down a little bit on some of the timing issues around this Gartner report. Mr. McCauley has brought it up at a number of meetings. Mr. Drouin has referred to it. Can you just clarify that you received the draft Gartner report on January 29?
5:45 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Yes, on the 29th of January.
5:45 p.m.
Liberal
5:45 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Yes, there was. It was within a few days, but I don't recall exactly when.
5:45 p.m.
Liberal
5:45 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Yes. I would say sometime in the first week of February. I can clarify that.
5:45 p.m.
Liberal
5:45 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I would have to go back, but it would have been after the second committee appearance here. I think in the summer was when I believe we made the minister—
5:45 p.m.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
So you had received the report essentially around the first week of February but did not make the minister aware of the report until well past the decision-making time regarding the implementation of phase one or phase two, or the inclusion of the special branch offices to deal with the issue. It wasn't until almost August that you made the minister aware of the report.
5:45 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I would have to go back and check, but that sounds about right. Again, this was a report commissioned by Treasury Board Secretariat and not part of the government—
5:45 p.m.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
Who precisely in Treasury Board would have commissioned the report?
5:45 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I believe it was commissioned by the comptroller general of Canada.
5:45 p.m.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
Is the comptroller general responsible for all pay to all government employees?
5:45 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Well, the Treasury Board Secretariat is the employer, so they have responsibility for collective bargaining and—
5:45 p.m.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
If the comptroller general had commissioned a report regarding its ability to ensure that employees are being appropriately paid, don't you think you should have made that immediately available to the minister?
5:45 p.m.
Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
We felt we had addressed the concerns that were raised. We took all of the concerns—