Government Operations Committee on Nov. 29th, 2016

[Judy Foote, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

We really had no reason to doubt, at that point. That's why we put in place the deadline that we did. Again, when you talk about how complicated the cases were, that caused issues even for those who have experience, because there are so many different transactions that can refer to one case.

For us, it wasn't a matter of wondering whether or not we'd be able to clear up the 82,000. We fully intended on doing that, but even for compensation advisers and human resources personnel who are well trained, there are issues that come up all the time when you're dealing with 80,000 different regulations and with 46 departments.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Today, can you confirm whether all the pay advisers have completed their training for the Phoenix system?

[Judy Foote, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Do you want to speak to that?

[Marie Lemay]

I believe the numbers you're referring to are employees and managers who had to take training.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

That's right.

[Marie Lemay]

We can tell you the PSPC numbers. We're at 89% for managers and 87% for employees.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Okay, perfect.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Mr. Weir, you have seven minutes, please.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Madam Minister, near the beginning of your opening statement, you said, “We have closed the cases of 83% of employees in the backlog.” Later on in your statement, you said, “Our backlog is almost 80% eliminated.” What proportion of the backlog has been cleared up? Is it 83% or is it less than 80%?

[Judy Foote, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

It's 83%.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Okay, so the “almost 80%” was perhaps an error in the remarks?

[Judy Foote, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

It's 83%.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Okay, thank you. So, 83% is clearly less than 100%.

Last time you appeared before this committee, I asked whether the government was on track to meet its stated deadline of October 31. That date has come and gone, and we still have 15,000 employees remaining in the backlog. I'm wondering if you can tell the committee when those cases will finally be resolved.

[Judy Foote, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

In terms of not meeting the October 31 deadline, there was no one more disappointed than those of us who are working at PSPC. Clearly, we had hoped that we would get them all resolved by October 31. As I've said, a lot of those cases go back three years—they predate Phoenix—and they are complicated cases. In terms of when we will get them cleared up, we are going to get them cleared up as soon as we possibly can. That's why we have put a dedicated team to work just on those 15,000 cases, because we need to get those resolved as quickly as possible.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

I would also like to touch on the issue of employees who will have incorrect figures on their T4 income tax forms. Your answer to this issue used to be that it would all be wrapped up before the end of the calendar year. It doesn't sound like that's the case. Your answer today seemed to be that employees could go to the Canada Revenue Agency's website or call the toll-free number.

Is that really the extent of the government's plan to deal with this challenge of incorrect information on tax forms?

[Judy Foote, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

We're going to make available whoever we have to in order to respond to any concerns that employees have, whether we do that through the Canada Revenue Agency or whether we do that through PSPC. Clearly, if employees think there are errors on their T4s, they need to get in touch with PSPC, and we will work with them to find out if, in fact, there are.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

It's not just a matter of employee concerns. If an employee actually hasn't been paid the correct amount by the end of the year, then the number on the T4 is going to be wrong.

[Judy Foote, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

That's why we're encouraging employees to get in touch with us. That's why we have made available the call centre. We have the website there, and we have lines that they can call. It's really important that they reach out to us if they think they're having an issue, or if they've been overpaid and they're concerned about their T4. We are going to make every effort we possibly can to make sure that any issues with their T4s are corrected.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

I'd like to ask about the costs of responding to this Phoenix boondoggle. In the supplementary estimates, we have almost $50 million to pay for supplementary pay centres, but you've also mentioned that the government is going to have to compensate employees who incurred interest charges and penalties by missing payments as a result of not receiving the money that they've earned. Do you have any sense of how much that compensation is going to cost?

[Judy Foote, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Fifty million dollars is the number we're working with at this point in time. Whether or not there will be additional costs remains to be seen. At this point, that is what we're working with and that is what we're asking for. I spelled out what that $50 million will be used for. That's the number we're working with. With this file, as you know, if there are additional costs, then we'll have to deal with that, but at this time, $50 million is the number.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

At a previous meeting we were told quite explicitly by your officials that the $50 million did not include the compensation of employees. Are you now suggesting that the $50 million encompasses the employee compensation as well as the pay centres?

[Judy Foote, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

No. Are you talking about the claims unit? That's separate from the money that's being spent by PSPC. The money—

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

I agree. I'm asking how much it's going to be.

[Judy Foote, Liberal, Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, NL]

Do we have a number?

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

I'm just trying to get a handle on the total cost of resolving the problem.