Evidence of meeting #11 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cerb.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Bob Hamilton  Commissioner of Revenue, Canada Revenue Agency
Ted Gallivan  Assistant Commissioner, Compliance Programs Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
Frank Vermaeten  Assistant Commissioner, Assessment, Benefit and Service Branch, Canada Revenue Agency
Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Paul Cardegna
Graham Flack  Deputy Minister, Department of Employment and Social Development
Cliff C. Groen  Acting Chief Operating Officer, Service Canada, Department of Employment and Social Development

2:55 p.m.

Liberal

Diane Lebouthillier Liberal Gaspésie—Les-Îles-de-la-Madeleine, QC

I recognize that some Canadians have not been able to access the usual services, such as the community volunteer income tax program. That is because of the current situation. We have received your letter and those of other members of Parliament, and we will take your comments and recommendations into consideration.

2:55 p.m.

NDP

Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON

Please note that GIS, honourable minister, accounts for sometimes 70% to 80% of a person's income. When you look at what a typical OAS pension is, it's only $613, so we're talking about $12,000 extra a year, $1,000 extra a month, which right now is in critical peril.

I implore you to please consider having these extended using the 2018 filings.

3 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski

Thank you, Mr. Green.

Minister, I'm sure you will take Mr. Green's comments under advisement and provide an answer to Mr. Green if you possibly can.

Minister, thank you very much for your appearance here today.

We have to set up for our second round of questions, which will be with Minister Qualtrough.

Minister, once again, thanks to you and to all of your officials. You are excused.

Colleagues, we will suspend for a couple of moments while we prepare for our next round of witnesses. We are suspended.

3:10 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski

Colleagues, we are reconvened.

For the benefit of Minister Qualtrough, I'll repeat what I mentioned in my opening remarks before she came on the line. If you begin by speaking in one official language, please continue to speak in the same official language without switching back and forth. This will help our technical ability to avoid delay.

Colleagues, for those of you who have just joined us, I have a similar request of you. If you ask a question in one official language, please keep the entire question and the responses in the same language so that we don't have to switch back and forth.

We'll remain with the same procedure as for the first hour, so it will be five minutes for questions in the first round, four minutes for the second round, and then two minutes in the final interventions.

With that, Minister, I'll turn it over to you for six minutes, please.

3:10 p.m.

Delta B.C.

Liberal

Carla Qualtrough LiberalMinister of Employment

Mr. Chair, I apologize. My remarks are in both languages, back and forth. I'm going to do my best to just do English, so please indulge me.

Hello, everyone. I'm pleased to join you today to speak about the measures to support Canadians during the COVID-19 pandemic as they pertain to my current portfolio.

Before I begin, I'd like to thank the committee for your study on our government's response to the COVID-19 pandemic. Your work is truly essential to our democratic process.

It's been nearly two months now that Canadians have been adapting to the COVID-19 pandemic gripping our country and the world. To give you a sense of the scope of the need, I can tell you that we've received 11.38 million applications, of which we have processed 11.29 million applications under the Canada emergency response benefit, both through Service Canada and through the CRA. A total of $30.48 billion in payments have been made to 7.83 million people.

The CERB was created to come to the aid of Canadians during these unprecedented circumstances. In reality, our EI system was not built for the situation of a global pandemic. It doesn't cover all the different situations in which Canadians find themselves in this time of a public health crisis. Service Canada and CRA stepped up, formed a team, and in the space of a couple of weeks elaborated and put into place a system that really responded to Canadians' needs. For eligible workers, the CERB provides temporary income support of $500 a week for up to 16 weeks. It applies to workers who have stopped working for reasons related to COVID-19. It also supports working parents who are staying home to care for children because of school and day care closures.

We've made extraordinary efforts to make this emergency benefit as inclusive as possible. Workers, including the self-employed, can earn up to $1,000 per month while collecting the benefit. The benefit also applies to workers who've recently exhausted their regular EI benefit payments and aren't able to start working again because of COVID-19. This helps many seasonal workers, including fishers and those in the tourism industry, who may not have had their usual seasonal work to return to as a result of COVID-19.

Now I'll say a word about supporting temporary foreign workers and ensuring Canada's food supply.

The COVID-19 pandemic has made it difficult to bring in the needed temporary foreign workers. That's why we've made modifications to our temporary foreign worker program to try to add some flexibility to the system. I want to emphasize that there are definitely jobs available for Canadians in the areas that are also supported by temporary foreign workers, as has been the case historically.

I'll now say a word about students and youth.

We've announced comprehensive support for post-secondary students and recent graduates, representing an investment of approximately $9 billion. As part of that support, we introduced a four-month Canada emergency student benefit. Students who are not receiving the CERB and meet the criteria for this new benefit will be able to apply to receive $1,250 per month between May and August. Students with permanent disabilities and students with dependants could receive an additional $750 per month.

We've heard a lot in the past few weeks about how these payments might disincentivize students to work. Well, that's not what we've heard from young people across the country. We've heard very clearly from students that they want to work and serve in their communities in this time of crisis. That's why we also announced the creation of 76,000 additional jobs and training opportunities, including jobs in the agriculture and processing sectors, through mechanisms such as our youth employment and skills strategy program. This is on top of the 70,000 jobs that will be available through the Canada summer jobs program, with greater flexibility for employers to hire young people this summer and through the fall.

Other important measures to help students during the COVID-19 pandemic are changes to the Canada student loans program. These changes will expand eligibility, increase the weekly cap and double the value of our grants. These new measures came in addition to earlier measures to pause the repayment of student and apprentice loans, interest-free, until September 30, 2020.

Mr. Chair, we've taken these measures with the goal of helping Canadians and supporting our economy. As the situation evolves, my colleagues in cabinet and I will be ready to respond to whatever Canadians need.

I'm available now for questions.

3:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski

Minister, I'm not sure whether you have completed your remarks or you—

3:15 p.m.

Liberal

Carla Qualtrough Liberal Delta, BC

Yes, I have.

3:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski

Oh. I—

3:15 p.m.

Liberal

Carla Qualtrough Liberal Delta, BC

I apologize. I said that I'm available for questions, and that was my clue. I apologize.

3:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski

No, no, that is fine. I was just having a little difficulty picking that up. I thank you for the economy of your words. It gives us more time for questions.

Colleagues, we'll now go to our first round of questioning.

Mr. McCauley, please go ahead. You have five minutes.

3:15 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

Minister Qualtrough, it's good to almost see you here.

Minister, you've been repeatedly asked, both by MPs and by the media, whether people who do not feel safe to return to work remain eligible for the CERB if they do not return. The finance minister said that people would still be eligible, but you haven't clarified with a yes or no.

Can you please tell us now if workers who are called back to work, but fear for their own or their family's safety, remain eligible for the CERB?

3:15 p.m.

Liberal

Carla Qualtrough Liberal Delta, BC

Thank you for the question.

I suspect that the nuance I've felt and am obligated to provide—which I will provide here again today—is that refusal to work is a very complicated process, with investigations, and I didn't want to dive into the provincial labour law and federal labour code.

The message I'm trying to convey at the end of the day, Mr. McCauley, is that if you feel unsafe to work and you are not working for COVID reasons and you otherwise qualify for the CERB, then you are eligible.

3:15 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

You're in agreement with the finance minister, then, that if you feel unsafe—

3:15 p.m.

Liberal

Carla Qualtrough Liberal Delta, BC

Well, yes. If someone has gone through the process of whatever their federal or provincial refusal-to-work regime is, then at the end of the day, yes.

3:15 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

Well, that is very different, though, because in the Province of Alberta's labour code, for example, you have to have proof that it's unsafe. You can't just feel unsafe because of COVID. You would actually need a ruling from the labour board, so you're kind of contradicting yourself.

If I am at home and I can go back to work, but I do not feel it's safe to go back to work because perhaps I'm living with an elderly person or someone with a compromised immune system, and I refuse, under EI laws or the labour code, it has to be checked. The finance minister says that I can refuse, but you're saying that it's nuanced because of the province.

Do you agree with the finance minister that if someone says “no” because they fear for their safety, they can remain on CERB?

3:15 p.m.

Liberal

Carla Qualtrough Liberal Delta, BC

Well, I think it—

3:15 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

I just want to get a straight answer from you. Do you agree with the finance minister?

3:15 p.m.

Liberal

Carla Qualtrough Liberal Delta, BC

Mr. McCauley, it is fact-pattern-specific. If you have to stay home to take care of a loved one, you absolutely can go on CERB.

3:15 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

We're not talking about a loved one. Specifically, if you feel unsafe returning to work, the finance minister says yes, you can stay at home and stay on CERB, but we're not getting that same precise answer from you. Why not?

3:15 p.m.

Liberal

Carla Qualtrough Liberal Delta, BC

I'm trying to respect provincial jurisdiction. From an eligibility for CERB perspective, the answer to your question is yes, but there is also a layer of provincial labour jurisdiction in some cases.

3:15 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

But the province is not deciding the CERB.

3:15 p.m.

Liberal

Carla Qualtrough Liberal Delta, BC

No.

3:15 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

You are.

3:15 p.m.

Liberal

Carla Qualtrough Liberal Delta, BC

Yes.

3:15 p.m.

Conservative

Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB

If you are saying that if someone stays home because they feel unsafe returning to work, they can still stay on CERB, that's the same as the finance minister. If I'm hearing that, well, wonderful.

The government has stated that the wage subsidy is going to be extended past June. Is there talk right now about extending the CERB past the original stated time?