Government Operations Committee on June 5th, 2020

[Mitch Davies]

That's an important point. Many of our most innovative companies are small companies. We are a country of small enterprise and very innovative small enterprise.

One specific area is filter material for masks. We have a number of companies we're going to be working with, very small businesses that have innovative answers and want to bring those answers forward. It's a very important area of focus for us. We'll continue to count on small innovators to bring forward these solutions for Canada.

Thank you.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

We'll now go to Mr. Kusmierczyk for five minutes.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you so much, Mr. Davies, for your excellent testimony this morning.

Mr. Schaan, it's really nice to connect with you after our conversations on the RPL program many moons ago.

I want to follow up on the line of questioning regarding the contact-tracing apps with Apple and Google. I want to ask whether the federal government was soliciting or collaborating with Canadian companies to develop contact-tracing apps as well, similar to Google and Apple.

[Mark Schaan]

There's actually quite a bit of work that has been under way to understand all of the capacities and innovative capabilities that can be brought to bear in this particular space, whether it's contact tracing, exposure notification or broader innovations.

The Government of Canada has been exploring options and working with a number of different companies and organizations to understand their functionalities and capabilities. Some want to work on top of the Apple and Google APIs, and others are pursuing slightly different approaches. The Government of Canada is engaging with provincial and territorial counterparts as they work to come to an agreement and work together on the best solution for all Canadians.

We are continuing to explore, but many of them include Canadian operations and Canadian entities that have come forward with potential solutions, and we continue to evaluate those.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you very much.

I want to touch upon a point that you just raised.

How does contact tracing work effectively in a federal system like ours, where provinces, for example, can download or support their own contact-tracing apps and whatnot? What would be the federal role in trying to coordinate contact tracing across the different provinces and territories?

[Mark Schaan]

The Government of Canada has been exploring a number of options, and we are obviously aware that one of the critical factors that determine the success of exposure notification applications is uptake and the degree to which there is widespread adoption.

One of the ways to fuel that adoption is to allow for commonality and jurisdictional interoperability. That's been one of the key priorities as we've worked through this file. We continue to work with provinces and territories to arrive at a possible solution that would provide that level of interoperability and fuel that uptake.

As you note, with the absence of sufficient uptake, you actually run two risks. One is that you potentially fuel false confidence from folks who don't believe they've necessarily been exposed, but that's actually a function of the fact that they're not coming into contact with other people who have downloaded the application. The other is that we know there's interjurisdictional and interprovincial travel, and we need to ensure interoperability across those that recognizes the realities of Canadians who are crossing interprovincial borders.

We continue to work toward that interoperability goal.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

That's an excellent answer; I appreciate it very much.

Do we have a sense of the percentage of the population that needs to have that uptake, to adopt this app, in order for contact tracing to be effective? Do we have a sense of what that target could be or a target range?

[Mark Schaan]

There has been a brand new set of scientific, academic and other research articles that have driven into this space as a function of the pandemic. There's no pure answer to that question, but a number of studies have pointed out that potentially 50% to 60% uptake may be required to allow for sufficient penetrating to allow the app to be functional.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Okay.

I'll build upon that. Would the federal government have a say in terms of whether an opt-in or opt-out model is adopted in Canada? I'm just curious.

[Mark Schaan]

Obviously, any model the federal government would endorse or seek to help drive uptake toward would have to do a number of things. One of them is obviously that we'd be pushing for something that could be interoperable. The second is that it needs to conform to the guidance that's been provided by the chief privacy commissioners across all of the provinces and territories and the Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada, Daniel Therrien. One of those is that you need to be very clear up front with Canadians about what it is you're providing to them, what information is potentially taken into account and what control they have over that information.

I won't speak to the specifics of opt-in or opt-out, but I'll just say that, for any application, we'd need to make sure it conforms to the guidance that's been provided.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

Unfortunately, you have only a few seconds left, Irek, but thank you.

[Irek Kusmierczyk, Liberal, Windsor—Tecumseh, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

We'll now go to Mr. McCauley again for five minutes, please.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Thanks very much to the witnesses. It's nice to see some openness from our witnesses. I appreciate all the feedback you're giving us.

I want to get back to Medicom. When is it going to start producing masks and have them ready for delivery? Of course, we have seen reports. I'm sure you saw them today. The AAG consulting company said we're going to need about 750 million non-medical masks a year. When can we start seeing them from Medicom?

[Mitch Davies]

It's obviously very important that this be up and running in Canada. We know the company is working to meet the commitments it has made to the Government of Canada for supply. We would hope that very soon, I would say in the summer period, it would be up and running and beginning manufacture in Canada. It is also supplying Canada from abroad as well.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Right. I hear rumours that it was the one that brought in the shoddy equipment, though.

When is it going to start having them made in Canada and producing in Canada?

[Mitch Davies]

At this point, I would indicate that in the late summer period we expect to see it beginning its production in Canada. That portfolio production will start with surgical masks and then move up to the N95 masks over time.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

When will it start making N95s, then?

[Mitch Davies]

Mr. Chair, I would have to take that question under advisement to provide—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Would it be within six months, within three months? Can you provide a ballpark?

[Mitch Davies]

Obviously, the time frame for delivery of this product is very critical to us, but I would ask that we take the question.... I think, in fact, Public Services and Procurement Canada has a contract where these terms are spelled out. I suspect the answer lies in there and would be best shared by the appropriate officials, but thank you very much for the question; it's very important.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Thanks.

Let me stick with that. You mentioned earlier that you met with.... I think this is the very first time we're hearing that the N95s are going to be way down the road. We were told in committee that masks would be coming out, I think, at the end of August. Now it's further down the road, it sounds like, for the N95s.

You said you met with other potential suppliers. Who else is getting contracts? I know that's PSPC, but who is Industry Canada meeting with to set up building N95s in Canada? Medicom got a sole-source contract, but it now sounds like it's not going to do N95s until the end of the year, if that. Who else is ISED dealing with to get the N95 masks done, which seem to be the rarest and most difficult to obtain?

[Mitch Davies]

Yes, absolutely, they are a specialized product with a significant number of components and much more complicated than what meets the eye—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

We all know that.

Who else is there, other than the single sole-source company?