Government Operations Committee on June 9th, 2020

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Actually, Mr. Chair, I'll be taking this one, with Mr. Green's approval.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Please go ahead.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

Minister Anand, earlier I pointed to the conflict of interest involving former Liberal cabinet minister Cathy Bennett. Are there other members of the COVID-19 supply council who have similar conflicts of interest and would be forced to resign out of an abundance of caution, as was said about Ms. Bennett?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

As I mentioned, I was very surprised to learn of the issue relating to that member of the supply council, and I accepted her resignation as soon as possible. I also instructed my team, as soon as that occurred, to go back and check to see if there were any similar issues that had arisen. We have not uncovered any. As I said, the obligation was placed on the individual to make sure they did not have a conflict, and we asked for that disclosure at the very beginning.

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

I appreciate that you looked into some of the other folks on the supply council. I just want to go through some of those.

David McHattie is the second vice-chair for the Petroleum Services Association of Canada and vice-president of institutional relations for Tenaris. We know that the Petroleum Services Association of Canada has met with the government over 40 times since April. Tenaris, a pipeline company, has met with the government on 31 separate occasions since 2017 on issues including development of oil and gas.

Jodi Hall is with the Canadian Association for Long Term Care, including for-profit, private long-term care homes. Perrin Beatty is with the Chamber of Commerce. I would say all of them have potential conflicts of interest similar to Ms. Bennett's. All are still on the supply council.

Is your government comfortable with the presence of lobbyists promoting oil and gas, as well as private long-term care homes, being this close to advising your department on procurement contracts during a crisis?

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Could we have a 30-second answer, if possible, Minister?

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Ms. Ashton, that's simply untrue.

Council members were selected based on their expertise and their leadership in their respective fields to represent a range of sectors, backgrounds and regions across the country. Given that members of the supply council are leaders in the private and non-profit sectors, there's a chance that they may represent or have prior relationships with the government, but they have no role in contracting whatsoever, as I have previously clarified for this committee, and I will repeatedly say it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

That ends our first hour with Minister Anand.

I will suspend in just a few moments, but I do want to thank you, Minister, and your officials for being here again.

As I noted in my opening remarks, this is the third time you've appeared before this committee in the last three months, so I do appreciate your taking the time. I hope you take my final comment with the greatest amount of respect, with which I am delivering it. Because you have appeared for us so frequently—and when I say this I mean it with the greatest amount of respect—I hope we don't see you again for at least another three months.

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

Thank you very much. The same goes for me.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

All witnesses are excused.

Colleagues, we will suspend for a few moments while we get ready for our second panel of witnesses.

We are suspended.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

I call this meeting back to order.

We will start with the opening statement by Minister Hussen.

Minister, I understand you have a brief opening statement of no more than five minutes. The floor is yours.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, Minister of Families]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair and committee members.

The Government of Canada continues to implement extraordinary measures to protect the health of Canadians and to shelter them from financial hardships during the COVID-19 pandemic. I'm proud to present the Government of Canada's COVID-19-related measures and my portfolio as Minister of Families, Children and Social Development, and as the minister responsible for the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation.

Let me take you back to March 2020. With the pandemic just starting in Canada, it became clear that our normal social safety net would not be able to handle the volume of people who were losing their jobs as part of the quarantine. Our government acted fast and introduced the Canada emergency response benefit. Through it, we are providing a taxable benefit of $500 per week for up to 16 weeks to eligible workers who stopped working due to the COVID-19 pandemic.

As part of our plan, we've also given 3.7 million families currently receiving the Canada child benefit a one-time $300 boost per child with their regular May 2020 payment. Starting next month, on July 20, the Canada child benefit will again be increased to keep up with the cost of living. This additional tax-free support will help Canadian families pay for things such as healthy food, clothing and activities that they can do together at home.

Additionally, we've taken action to ensure that all Canadians have a safe and affordable place to call home during the COVID-19 pandemic. For example, if a homeowner's mortgage is insured through the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, Genworth Canada or Canada Guaranty, we have taken action to ensure that homeowners in financial need can access a temporary deferral of mortgage payments for up to six months.

Sadly, people experiencing homelessness are at heightened risk of contracting COVID-19 and suffering severe health consequences as a result of that. This is why the Government of Canada moved quickly and early to provide $157.5 million to communities combatting homelessness and to make sure that the organizations serving the homeless populations are prepared for and manage the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic.

We also moved quickly to support charities in the non-profit sector to continue the important work they are doing to support vulnerable populations by setting up the emergency community support fund in the amount of $350 million. Organizations that require that support can go through our three partners: the United Way Centraide Canada, Community Foundations of Canada and the Canadian Red Cross.

In closing, Mr. Chair and colleagues, by addressing the financial need of families, workers, renters, homeowners and landlords, and the additional needs of the more vulnerable in our communities, the Government of Canada is doing its part to mitigate the spread of the COVID-19 virus and to continue to protect Canadians' health and financial security through the pandemic.

Thank you. I will now be happy to answer any questions you may have.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

Colleagues, I think we'll start with five-minute rounds of questions. We'll go from five minutes to four minutes to two minutes.

Mr. Aboultaif, you have five minutes. Go ahead, please.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Minister, I hope you and your family are safe. Welcome to the committee today.

You mentioned the CERB program. The news says that CERB fraudsters could face fines, jail, and maybe new enforcement measures or mechanisms. Can you comment on that, please, and give us any details you have on what kind of mechanisms are in place to go after the people who are fraudulently or misleadingly, if you wish, claiming CERB financial assistance?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

I want to assure you, the members of the committee and all Canadians that everyone who receives the Canada emergency response benefit must first attest that they are indeed eligible for the benefit and that they meet the program requirements. While our primary focus has always been to get money out the door to eligible Canadians, we continue to regularly conduct file reviews. We continue to engage in investigations to identify and address cases of error, fraud and abuse. We are using computer tracking, data analytics and linked data systems to detect mispayments and any fraudulent activity.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

So that's the mechanism you're using. Is that correct?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

Yes. We are using a number of methods and tools to detect fraud and abuse, and of course that hasn't stopped. We're continuing to conduct investigations as well.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

In order to assist Canadians or to save some of the mortgages, the Bank of Canada bought some mortgages from the banks. Can you advise us of the total amount of money, or how many billions of dollars were spent in that regard?

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

We have ensured that we protect homeowners, that we keep them housed, that we continue to allow them to access their homes and get through this COVID-19 pandemic.

In terms of the specific numbers, I will defer to my officials to provide that further information to you.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

We can take an answer on that later. I'd like to carry on with my questions, if that's okay.

Now, the policies of CMHC regarding the.... You know, with people trying to sell their homes, there are some new conditions right now. The home values are going down. The prediction is that house prices are going to go down by 10% to 18%, which means that if someone bought a house for $300,000 and paid a $15,000 deposit to buy the house, now the house price has gone down by $60,000. They're at $45,000 as losses before they even get to enjoy the house.

The question is, who is the beneficiary of the new policies? It doesn't seem to make sense in this time of pandemic.

[Ahmed Hussen, Liberal, York South—Weston, ON]

I will answer the question and then also defer to the head of CMHC to provide further information.

Our government is putting forward measures to help Canadians, businesses and the non-profit sector, but we know that this pandemic is also affecting Canada's housing market. We are committed to ensuring that we provide a safe and affordable home to each and every Canadian, through different mechanisms.

I will now pass the floor over to the head of CMHC to provide further input into your question.

[Evan Siddall, President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation]

Thank you, Minister.

The answer to the prior question is that we have bought $5.8 billion of mortgages thus far under the insured mortgage purchase program, of a total availability of $150 billion, and we tightened our underwriting policies, as many lenders have done. That's because of the potential for decreased house prices in the future and the fact that we don't want to put vulnerable Canadians into mortgages that they can't afford, sir.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

What's the risk to....? There must be a risk to CMHC as well as to the Bank of Canada, and down the road to taxpayers.

What is the risk of doing what you're doing?

[Evan Siddall]

There's no risk to the Bank of Canada. The Bank of Canada only buys mortgages that have CMHC insurance on them, or Government of Canada insurance, so they don't have credit risk associated with that.

We are actually reducing our risk as a result of these changes, so that homeowners have more equity, stronger credit or better ability to pay, in the event that they buy houses over the next period of time.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

One in five mortgages in Canada—